Announcer: Please note disclaimers at end of show. Welcome to Creating Wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before and a new slant on investing, fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible.

Jason is a genuine self-made multimillionaire, who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. He’s been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom. You really can do it. And now, here’s your host, Jason Hartman, with the Complete Solution for Real Estate Investors™.

Jason Hartman: Good day and welcome to the Creating Wealth Show, Episode No. 144. This is your host, Jason Hartman. Thank you for joining us today when we talk about internet marketing and social media. The last several shows have focused on real estate or income property investing, which, of course, is my very favorite investment, and it better be yours, too because it is the best performing asset class in the world, literally.

When you look back at a decade of investments, it is truly amazing. We’re doing a chart for you right now, that we are going to have available, that will show you all of the basic asset classes compared. It will show the DOW, the S&P, it will show gold, it will show silver, and it will show income property. And it will show it over the last decade, how income property has totally outperformed everything by a long shot. I think you’ll be pretty darn impressed. Half of the decade, of course, was a pretty good market for real estate, but half of the decade was a pretty bad market for real estate. So even with that considered, you’ll be amazed because of the multi-dimensional characteristics, how well it has performed.

You know every tenth show – this is not one of them – but every tenth show, we do a non-financial topic, and yesterday, I interviewed Dr. Denis Waitley and he did a fantastic show. Again, he’s one of my big mentors. He’s a big name. And he will be Show No. 150, so that’s coming up here. We’re only six shows away.

And between that, we’re going to talk about how multi-millionaire investors and businesspeople pay little or no tax. Remember tax is the largest expense in life. We have Diane Kennedy on the show talking about that. And then we have Mark Kohler talking about how lawyers are liars. I’m sure most of you will agree with that. Even if you are a lawyer, you might agree with that one. But he’ll talk about asset protection and tax strategies. You’ll be really amazed. We have Nick Nanton, who will talk about Celebrity Branding, how to develop brand recognition for yourself or your business.

We have Ted Nicholas, who is the famous marketer and copywriter. Andre Eggellation, who will talk about the Federal Reserve System and our sort of corrupt banking system, and we’ve had a lot on that before. We just have a bunch of great shows coming up. We have Frank McKinney coming up. He’s a wow marketer and just a zillionaire real estate investor, who started out selling small, inexpensive rehab properties, up to multi-, multi-million dollar, incredible properties. He has the most expensive, environmentally efficient property in the world on the market right now for $29 million. I interviewed him. You’re going to be hearing about him on my show.

We have Mike Koenigs, who’s going to talk about Traffic Geyser, which is a fantastic internet-marketing tool that you’ll just love. It’s pretty incredible. Yanik Silver, who’s going to talk about internet marketing and home-based businesses, he had a home-based business doing $12 million a year in revenue that just he and his wife operated from home. Totally, totally amazing.

We have David Allen coming up, who’s going to talk about organization. He wrote several very famous books that are just big-time famous in the corporate world on how to get organized and how to be more efficient. So just a whole bunch of great stuff coming up.

And on my other shows, The Young Wealth Show, that is up now. It is on iTunes, and we have our first episode up that is all about financial literacy for young adults. So if you have teenagers, if you have 20-something young adults, have them listen to the show. If you are in that age group, be sure you’re listening to The Young Wealth Show as well.

And then, of course, The Holistic Survival Show, where we talk about protecting the people, places, and profits you care about in uncertain times. So we have a lot of content for you out there, and we love to do this, and we just need your support with all of our various endeavors.

Tomorrow, January 7, you may or may not be hearing this show in time, is our conference call where we’re talking about our predictions for 2010. We have a fantastic 40-page white paper. We keep revising this thing and it keeps getting more and more content, where we profile over 30 markets around the country, and we make our predictions on those markets. But we do something totally unique to us, and we’ll be talking about it on the call. But you can get the white paper as well, and that is on the website at HYPERLINK “” It’s $25 and it will be the best information you get anywhere financially. I tell you I can say that with a lot of confidence because our content is really, really unique.

And what we do here is something nobody else does. We do what’s called an ROI Build, where we calculate return on investment, whether it be positive or negative, in all of these different markets around the country, so something totally unique to us. I don’t know of anybody else doing that, and I tell you, I’m pretty familiar with everybody else and what they’re doing out there, I think. This is completely unique. You won’t get this information anywhere else. And our predictions have been pretty darn spot-on, too, most of the time. Not perfect. We don’t have a crystal ball, but we’ve been pretty darn close. So get the white paper at HYPERLINK “”

And I have a special promotion for you to kind of kick off the New Year. If you want to join us for our Creating Wealth Bootcamp, this is our core program. It’s coming up on January 23 here in Orange County, and I’m pretty sure we’re going to be doing that at the Costa Mesa Marriott. We’ve had events there before, right across the street from our office. And that will be January 23. It’s a Saturday, from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm, totally unique information, again, that you’re not hearing anywhere else but here. That is a $297 bootcamp, and that includes two tickets. You can bring your friend, your significant other, your spouse, whatever, and $297 is the normal price, but we have a special promo just for the next ten people to register. So when No. 11 wants to register, they don’t get this deal. And there are two specials about it.

No. 1, you get 30 percent off, so we’re going to make that $208; 30 percent off, and that’s for two tickets, a full day. And also, we’re going to throw in a copy for free of our white paper, our 40-page white paper that I just mentioned. So you get a free white paper and you’ll get two tickets, and you’ll get a 30 percent discount. That’s $208, but it only works for the next ten people. Call our investment counselors here at Platinum Properties Investor Network and register that way. The number, again, (714) 820-4200. They will register you with that special promo.

If you haven’t joined our Coaching Program yet, folks, you have to get in on the coaching. Remember, at our premier Coaching level, all of our events are free, so you get pretty much everything we do for free. Get involved in that. It’s very important. Subscribe to our newsletter. And join us for the Masters Weekend in March as well.

So today, our show is focused on social media marketing, and we have expert, Bill Ganz, who is going to talk about that. This guy is really a guru when it comes to social media and internet marketing, and I think you’re really going to enjoy the show. So listen in to him. He’s a pretty excitable guy, so he’s pretty out there in terms of passion and excitement about this, and I think you’ll hear it come through. Here’s the interview with Bill. We look forward to seeing you at our next event, the Creating Wealth Bootcamp, on January 23. Be sure to call (714) 820-4200 and talk to our investment counselors and get in on that special promo. Here’s the interview with Bill.

Dennis Prager: Hi, Dennis Prager here to tell you about Platinum Properties Investor Network because you know I’ve met personally with Jason Hartman, President of Platinum Properties, and I was impressed. Platinum Properties helps people invest in real estate in growing markets, with as little as $8,000 down. Now, you’re invited to attend one of their educational events that will show you how to make money using their truly new investment techniques. Are you tired of looking at your quarterly 401k and IRA statements and seeing poor performance? You might want to use those funds to invest in real estate.

Learn more at Jason Get a real return on your retirement accounts by getting them out of the stock market. Call Platinum Properties right now to register for the next educational event, and tell them Dennis Prager asked you to call.

Interview with Bill Ganz

Jason Hartman: It’s my pleasure to welcome Bill Ganz to the show. He is a lead generation, media architect, and social media strategy and search engine marketing expert, so we’re going to hit on a lot of things as it comes to internet marketing today. Bill, it’s a pleasure to have you on the show.

Bill Ganz: It’s great to be on the Jason Hartman Show.

Jason Hartman: Well, great to have you. Tell us a little bit about what it is you do and how it can be effective for people looking to promote anything. It’s usually their business, but maybe it’s not a business necessarily. Maybe a cause, a charitable thing; it may be a political platform, whatever it is, but the internet has certainly offered a lot of opportunity to us all.

Bill Ganz: Well, one of the things we’re really doing today is working with social media and conversational marketing, and understanding how that really helps businesses or brands or people reinvent themselves. I think that’s what it’s about today. There are going to be a lot of opportunities created and the tools that we have created are very easy to use, very low cost, and very hard hitting.

Jason Hartman: That’s great. That’s what everyone wants to hear, easy to use, low cost, and hard hitting. Give us an example of some of those tools. We talked a lot before recording today and talked a lot about video. Do you want to start with video?

Bill Ganz: Sure. One of the products we’ve created today is Promotional Talk Shows, and you can see it at HYPERLINK “” And we’ve created this platform that allows businesses or people or brands or, in many cases, charities – we’re working with some 501C3’s and C6’s to grow their brand – but it’s $1,500 for a one-hour talk show or a one-hour infomercial. That’s an amazing low cost. I’ve been in the media business 25 years, and as a producer, to do a simple throwaway video, it might be $15,000 to $40,000, $50,000. We’re talking about $1,500 today and we can get into what that is.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, it’s pretty amazing really, and I know, Bill, it’s a loss leader for you because you’re looking to offer kind of a complete solution for this realm of the promotional world to people. And it’s a high-quality product for $1,500. That’s pretty amazing you can offer that, and I’ll tell you I know this because I’ve done my own shows, I’ve had them bid out with other people, and these infomercial companies will charge you anywhere from I’d say at the low end, $5,000 – at the low, low end, and we’ve seen some of those when we haven’t been able to sleep sometimes. Turn on TV and start surfing them. I’m sure you’ve seen them, too. And on up to $300,000 easily, and these are half-hour shows.

Bill Ganz: The Jason Hartman Show is a great example. If you think of the Robert Kiyosaki and Harry Dent and all these shows you have in your line-up, it’s a magnificent tool. Broadcasting in audio on the internet is exceptional. It gets indexed very well or tracked by the search engines very well. But dense media, the video gets the biggest lift. It has the biggest impact.

And also, it’s the richest media experience for the viewer. Imagine having a homepage video. When people go to your site – “Now, read all this and click through these 700 tabs” – versus an introduction from you, that’s such a big difference. Imagine today in viral video or video landing pages. So critical that when you get kind of a spammy ad, I’ll say, that’s done through some kind of email service provider, and you see a video, the conversion rate is much higher. It’s much, much higher.

Jason Hartman: I totally agree with you because with a video, you feel like you’re really talking to the person. You’re sort of face-to-face, if you will. You have a whole strategy behind this. Someone can come in, and for just $1,500, they can create this one-hour show in your studios in Las Angeles, right?

Bill Ganz: Yes, on Mid-Wilshire.

Jason Hartman: Okay, Mid-Wilshire. And after that, there’s a whole strategy as to how to use this, cutting it up into less than 10-minute segments, using it in different ways, getting viewership, and as I mentioned to you before, I’ve been very pleased with my audio podcast, the one we’re on right now. I have a couple other shows, too.

But the video I have not really made the kind of penetration that I’ve wanted to in terms of my goals, and there’s just a whole world of strategy behind this, right?

Bill Ganz: Sure, and one of the key things is there isn’t any final work when you walk away from the studio. So the key is it walks away with a pre-edited show, and that’s really good to upload at YouTube or MySpace or Facebook or Hi5 or any of the social networks. Also, we go out into Google and Yahoo and all the search engines and upload it, and then we go out into content networks, like blogging networks and micro-blogging networks. It really gets deep penetration, video landing pages, homepage. You can also burn it to a DVD. But when you walk away from the show, you walk away with a USB web-ready to upload to all the search engines and all those places I just mentioned, which is a magnificent tool because it’s a media lift.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, that’s fantastic. You demonstrated for me the difference between broadcast media and user-generated content, or UGC. You use a lot of acronyms, by the way, so I want you to explain some of those to our listeners today, if you would. But where are we in that world? The one thing is the broadcast world that sort of was just for the lucky few in the past, and it’s still very expensive to get involved in that and very hard to be involved in that. But anyone can create videos and stick them on YouTube or Google Video, right?

Bill Ganz: Yeah, and the big thing is my diagram shows the difference between broadcast or television video media and user-generated content, what people upload to YouTube. For example, 650,000 people a day upload user-generated content pieces to YouTube.

Jason Hartman: So that means a lot of people out there trying to express themselves, promote themselves, whatever it is, and it also means a lot of competition for this listener who wants to get their message heard, right?

Bill Ganz: That’s right, but the thing we’re creating is a high-volume, high quality, low cost media, an entire production at $1,500 with your brand or with your product or your service. Today, there are authors, and we’re helping dozens and dozens of authors launch their books because publishers don’t really have end caps anymore. The bookstores are dying. There is nowhere really for them to go out, unless you have a publicist or a PR person booking you, which is terribly expensive, to go around the country and do book signings. There isn’t really a vertical.

But authors, coaches, motivators, technical support for companies, customer support for companies, there are so many different verticals that media can do today to create an audience, and interject it into conversational marketing products, like Twitter, like Facebook, like millions and millions of blogs. You can go to Technorati, type in any subject you want, come back with the top ten brand evangelists in any vertical, or top 100, and say, hey, may I offer you this piece of video I shot about the subject. We really appreciate you as a brand evangelist and/or industry evangelist, and we’d just really like to get your review on it. Maybe you get tens of millions of hits.

Jason Hartman: That’s fantastic. So there’s a lot of stuff to do out there in terms of connections and alliances is what you’re saying, right, sort of ride on their coattails?

Bill Ganz: The collaborative media era right now, understanding profile data, and community organizations.

Jason Hartman: Anything else before we leave the video topic? I mean we’re never going to completely leave it, but you have talking about belonging networks, you have your Fast Track website. There is really a lot of stuff here. Where do we go next, Bill?

Bill Ganz: I wrote a book, which everybody can download for free at HYPERLINK “”, or at HYPERLINK “” The book is called Belonging Networks, and in the six basic human needs, belonging is No. 1, and I break it down to show that contribution and significant are the two components to understand belonging. And belonging, on the significant side, can be either personal or professional. But when you get that cycle to happen to a customer, where their contribution gets them some personal or professional significance, you have a customer for life.

Jason Hartman: That’s fantastic. So, engaging with the customers and getting them to contribute to your ideas for products and services, is that what you’re talking about?

Bill Ganz: I think social media today, conversational marketing, is about empowerment, and the empowerment, to me, is defined by listening. So if an audience is talking about something or if you want to get their opinion, before you’ve even made a brand – imagine you were talking to wedding photographers. In the U.S., there are six million professional and pro-thusiast photographers. What if you went to Epson and said, “Here’s a printer. It’s designed just for the wedding photographers that are weekend photographers or pro-thusiasts.” And then you took five million orders of a printer before you made it? That changes the face of manufacturing and of merchandising products because you had a pre-sumer. It’s a word I coined in my book, pre-sumer. It’s a customer before they’re a customer through this interest that they’ve already created through keyword and phrase study on the internet.

So my book on social media and conversational marketing is helping break down the sort of barriers, profile data. If you type in any subject, the person tells you what they like. They tell you what they want. They tell you what they dislike. And even if they dislike something, they could be acquiring an audience. We just helped Microsoft understand an audience at the VM World Direct Show in San Francisco. Well, VM is the underdog and Microsoft is the 800 lb gorilla.

We said to them just let them accumulate an audience and then offer the right answer. Well, they acquired three million people. We answered the question, and then they go, “Well, VM’s not right. You’re right.” Okay. So you can use media for positive or negative, you can acquire an audience. You can interact with a brand. But you have to move something through social media. You have to move a video. You have to move your podcast shows. You have to move articles. You have to move RSS feeds or photos or anything. You have to move something through the internet.

So we’re helping people create that today with

Jason Hartman: Okay, so you give them the thing to push through with their message, with their unique selling proposition, with their branding, and then show them how to push it through that media. But the example you used, Bill, everybody listening wants a pre-sumer. I mean that is the ultimate of any business is to have a bunch of pre-sumers for every new idea you have, in any vertical, no question about it.

But in terms of those pre-sumers, if you’re a small business, a home-based business, sort of a – I’ll call it a four-hour workweek business, internet business, maybe it’s a little sideline for you, any ideas on pre-sumer products there and how we get them? Talk about monitoring social media, and of course, that’s a great idea. It’s something we just didn’t have the opportunity to do before. This really came about just a few years ago. But it takes a lot of time to monitor. If you’re a solopreneur, if you will, what, do you sit on Facebook all the time and learn what everybody wants? That’s certainly a lot of competitive intelligence there.

Bill Ganz: We have a brand actually that’s for pre-sumers. It’s a process that we call a “velocity process.” It’s $3,000. It helps brands, companies, and products understand their 100 percent go-to-market strategy. It takes 30 days. We tell them who their customer is, where their customer is, what the subject is, who their competitors are. We understand the Latent Semantic Indexing, which is the keyword and phrase search. We understand where the audience is. We just did it with a company in timeshares. It was a home-based business company. We helped them realize 33 million new customers to talk to.

Now, if you understand velocity, it’s direction plus speed equals success, and whether you’re a home-based business or an enterprise, it’s the very same process. Nobody starts the car metaphorically in sixth gear. We all start in first gear. If you know who your audience is, if you know the direction you’re going, then speed up. But you can’t speed up before you begin.

Jason Hartman: In your book, you talk about social networking reference manual here in this part of it, Section 2, “The Ten Most Beautiful Social Networks,” and then you compare and contrast Web2.0 and 3.0. Most people now know what 2.0 is, but 3.0?

Bill Ganz: 3.0 is really easy. It’s about semantic refinement. If you take the word “affiliate marketing” and the word “affiliate marketing,” they are two separate and succinctly different industries that are not related. A search engine, unless it has context in a semantic or bio-semantic and refined environment doesn’t know how to define that. So when you type something into Google, you get 16 million hits coming back.

Well, because the bio-semantic refinement isn’t set, you haven’t gone in and done the semantic refinement, Web 3.0 is about neural net knowledge. Neural net knowledge is a semantic refinement. It’s understanding the intention of a word in a virtual environment. So there’s a lot of advancement coming on right now, the artificial intelligence, bot node relevant tools, and setting up “knowns.”

I just got done running – I was CEO and president of an internet marketing company. It was very, very advanced, and this may be too heady for our conversation, but at the end of the day, when you realize the power of semantic refinement today, it’s your audience. It’s your audience because you really are – you’re not guessing anything. A marketing director, a CEO, a business owner should never guess again. There should never be another style guide because it’s all 100 percent scientific.

We have a patented 14-step process that we use for our bigger clients and more enterprise clients. It could be used for SMB or product launches. We’re currently doing some of both. But the 14-step process takes people through this scientific study, blogging, vlogging, podcasting, Wikis, search engine optimization, PPC, EPC, CPL.

Jason Hartman: What’s EPC?

Bill Ganz: EPPC is electronic buying. CPL is cost per lead. CPA is cost per action. CPC is cost per click. CPM is cost per thousand. And those are online terms for buying media the same way you would on television. It’s the same way you buy it on the internet.

So we’re helping companies understand the power of this by not thinking. Here’s the key. Never think again. It’s 100 percent science. We have these charts we call the Periatric Table of the Internet. If you take these 27 “knowns” of how search engines work, how search engine marketing works, how these things work, you never think about it because if you just follow the parameters on how they work, if you enter something in Wikipedia and define a brand, and then you do a PR release, and then you enter it in social media. Then you upload a video on YouTube. It’s a disruptive media. It’s like a football going through a garden hose. It’s a disruptive media.

So we’re helping companies understand how terribly simple it is, and frankly, everything is better, faster, cheaper, and with 100 percent measureable response. But never begin until you know where you’re going.

Jason Hartman: What are “The Ten Most Beautiful Social Networks?” We all know the main ones, but there are some others?

Bill Ganz: I put that together a year ago and I think that data is corrupt now because it just changes. Obviously, you’d say Facebook is No. 1, ubiquitously, globally.

Jason Hartman: And then Twitter you’d have to say; LinkedIn.

Bill Ganz: Twitter would be No. 2, if it wasn’t YouTube. And you could kind of go down the list. MySpace is losing momentum.

Jason Hartman: Terribly.

Bill Ganz: Terribly. It’s just falling apart at the seams. Shawn Gold just left and a number of their top, top people left to go create their own enterprise products. But I think today, really should get more subject specific. is exploding, which is the largest sector of people joining the internet, which is, by the way, a third of U.S. population of people over the age of 65. They’re going online.

But imagine teaching them how to go to the public library and use the internet for free on the fastest computers with the best bandwidth, and then moving them into a product. Now you have them in a buying centrifugal model. They’re going to buy a laptop, maybe a cell phone. So we’re teaching companies how to engage different sectors, whether it’s the Hispanic market or the senior citizens market or the foreign national markets.

Jason Hartman: So what you’re talking about is social networks that are really vertical, really targeted, right? That’s what you’re saying. Those are the new sort of “specialty” networks?

Bill Ganz: You’re able to put anything into a vertical, whether it’s a race, creed, color, age, gender, country. You could do it by geo-targeting. We could just do a campaign for San Diego, or one for Nebraska, or one for New York City. You could do the whole country. You could do a region of the country. The great thing today is it’s not just wide, like Twitter is very wide, but not very deep. It’s very superficial. It’s very active and fast data, but it’s a certain group of people doing it. It’s not across the board. And then Facebook is very deep. And then YouTube, depending on what you’re –

Jason Hartman: Well, see, most people listening, Bill, probably don’t think of YouTube as a social network.

Bill Ganz: Oh, sure.

Jason Hartman: Do you want to elaborate on that?

Bill Ganz: Well, you can join, you can subscribe to a channel, you could add to friend, you could collaborate what they call “internally” or “externally” to another person. So it has all the same parameters as Facebook, except that it allows what they call “dense media.” You can upload videos.

Now, you can upload them to YouTube, video, MySpace, Facebook, Hi5, Bebo, LinkedIn. We have hundreds and hundreds of social networks and search engines and content delivery networks that you can upload free content to.

So today, I say that it’s critical that you make video. Twelve years ago, when I started this, I said here it is. When 3 percent of the content goes to making the media – let’s say script or screen or Guthy-Renker, the big infomercial companies – 3 percent goes to making the media, which would arguably be millions.

Ninety-seven percent goes to media placement. What happens when that 97 percent goes away and it’s free to deliver your media to a one-to-one audience? And then you can add in meta tags. The search engines are bringing you the customer typing in the keyword and phrase to now see your video, which is a free audience, who’s looking for you. Make the content of a professional nature. Have it be low cost. Have it be randomly distributed. In many cases, we upload to hundreds of free social networks and free search engines, which becomes this basketball through a garden hose. It’s a disruptive media. Somebody is looking for – one out of three households does scrapbooking. Now, that’s an interesting statistic because there are 329 million registered U.S. citizens. There are also 50 million foreign nationals.

Fifty-one million digital cameras were sold in the U.S. last year alone. And less than 5 percent of the people can make a photo from their memory card. That’s opportunity to me. So if you want to attract people to your YouTube page, say here’s how you learn how to upload a photo from your memory card, well, there’s probably 100 million people looking to do that, brought to you by Platinum Properties.

Jason Hartman: So could it be unrelated like that?

Bill Ganz: Of course.

Jason Hartman: Because I have to tell you, I know of some real success stories with that and I haven’t thought of one to do myself, but Tim Ferris, author of The 4-Hour Workweek, that we’ve kind of modeled some of his internet marketing stuff off of, where you have an automated business. His biggest viral video was how to boil an egg or something like that. It was just totally unrelated. It was crazy.

Bill Ganz: If all the materials brought to you by the Jason Hartman show, Platinum Properties in Southern California, you’d say to yourself, well, thank you, but how is television – it’s brought to you by Ford Motor Companies – what did it have to do with the show “Friends” on Thursday night at 7:00 p.m.?

Jason Hartman: Well, that’s a good point. Those are unrelated, too.

Bill Ganz: It’s the exact same thing. I’ve been in media for 25 years, so really – I just said in a speech, everything is different and it’s totally the same. Technology does not replace psychology. It’s the same way that imagination doesn’t replace applications because today, even though an application can be made, it doesn’t bring you an audience. You have to use your imagination on how to get to the customer. You have to use customer psychology on how to attract them, and when you do attract them, you need to think about customer attention products first, not customer acquisition products. Everyone’s worried about lead generation today and they lead people to a site and the site is horrible. They’re getting this enormously low lift, where you’re getting 700,000 visitors and 13 are buying.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, that’s a terrible ratio.

Bill Ganz: Yeah, but that’s kind of common. Look at MonaVie. Every 50 people they acquire, they save one person.

Jason Hartman: What you’re saying there with MonaVie’s example, that’s a very bad attrition, right?

Bill Ganz: They have a great product and a great compensation plan for a multilevel marketing company, but they don’t have the tools and the products to train people. And when you train people, why would you want to acquire 50 people knowing you’re only going to keep one?

Jason Hartman: Yeah, so that’s not very sticky. There’s a lot of loss.

Bill Ganz: But obviously, those people came in with a belief system on a home-based business or a secondary or tertiary income, or wellness or energy products. But it didn’t come through for them. Well, you can’t blame 49 out of 50 people. So there has to be a lack of training, a lack of messaging, a lack of something. If you think of customer attention first and you invite someone to a Starbucks in a coupon in your local newspaper, but the building isn’t built yet, well, how would I take 50 cents off a beverage that hasn’t been there yet? There are bulldozers out there. It will be there in six months. Why are you trying to acquire me now?

So think of customer attention first with the videos or with the podcasts or vlogs or blogs or micro-blogging, and then think about acquiring people. Now what are we going to do with the traffic?

Jason Hartman: Okay, now let’s switch gears here for a moment. I want to talk to you about affiliate marketing. You mentioned it earlier, but we didn’t talk about it. You were just talking about search engine stuff. What is affiliate marketing? I know that in your book you cover the history of it, the development of it, and then some of the compensation methods. I was hoping you could talk about that a little bit because this is a big area of opportunity for people.

Bill Ganz: I love this subject and this morning, one of the companies I’m working with is the, third largest mixed-martial arts affiliation in the world. What we’re doing is we’re harnessing the brand by going out and finding all these people that are these uber-brand evangelists, alpha dogs in the MMA space, mixed-martial arts, which is the fastest growing sport in the world. You know UFC and you know Sherdog and Bodog and these other big brands.

Well, what happens if you went out into affiliate marketing and said you go out and acquire an audience either for the live event or for the online pay-per-view event, and you get paid? Imagine the same way this movie just came out, “A Christmas Carol” with Jim Carrey. It’s in 3D on Omnimax. I’ve told every single person this is the most incredible cinematic project I’ve ever seen in my life. I have nine degrees in film and video. I’ve been in the media business 25 years. I’ve never seen something like this.

Jason Hartman: I’ll have to see it.

Bill Ganz: You have to see it. It’s blowing me away.

Jason Hartman: It’s only in the theater, right?

Bill Ganz: You can only see it in the Omnimax Theater in full-time, real time, constant 3D, the most amazing cinematic project ever. What if I was paid to have this level of enthusiasm? Same way with a restaurant; same way with a brand; same with a product, same way with a service. How many people go out to social sites and recommend something? “Hey, I just went out to see a movie,” “so and so dinner,” and all their friends comment. Well, how many people do they brand influence?

And imagine if that referral – what if your friend knew his friend at the locker room or at the country club or the yacht club was going to buy or sell his house? I only call Jason Hartman.

Jason Hartman: Okay, so absolutely right. Everybody gets that idea. But no question about it, the enthusiasm is very well received. How do we do it, though? There are a lot of tools on the web that make affiliate marketing trackable, profitable. It’s all about the execution of it. What do we do, Bill, in terms of affiliate marketing?

Bill Ganz: You need to understand what you want to do. Using software, platforms to do analytical behavioral studies, behavioral targeting, to me, isn’t the massive application. The massive application is to first understand who your client is, and the huge value that we help companies understand is the difference between interesting and interested. If you’re interested in a customer, you have them for life. And it’s critical that you understand that impact because it’s either interested in their objective or it’s terribly disassociating. You get to a website; I don’t know what it’s telling me. They do everything. I don’t know what they do.

I got out and build websites for every subject, so if a person wants a video, or they want search engine marketing, whatever they want, I have a whole website for it. And then I have master sites that bring them altogether because if I’m a brand, I don’t want to know you do 50 other things. I want to know you’re the best at what you do.

And so being interested in customers, and today, with micro blogging and blogging and social networking, it’s the way to go in. You can go into Twitter and type in the # symbol – at Twitter, they call it the hash tag – type in the hash tag, plus any subject, it will tell you everybody right now, globally, that’s on that subject. Then you can go to them.

Jason Hartman: That’s amazing.

Bill Ganz: It’s the freest, largest research tool in the entire world, and you can touch tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people real-time right now. And then you know who to talk to, and then you go do the same thing. Go to Technorati and type in any subject and it will come back with – I like wine, so any subject on wine or vinology or growing, it doesn’t matter – real estate – any subject. You use these competitive intelligence tools, business intelligence tools, and media monitoring tools to understand your audience. Now, how do you want to address it?

Jason Hartman: Okay, so how do we want to address it?

Bill Ganz: I say that today, if you do – in our case, we have a $3,000, 30 days study. We literally do all the work for you. You don’t do anything. In 30 days, we give you a free and comprehensive report. You can go to HYPERLINK “” and click on 30-day Case Study, and it shows a 30-day study we did for a home-based business company that sold timeshares, where we helped them realize 33 million new customers. It’s a guided story. It’s a podcast. It’s against a Power Point and an analytical study. It’s 100 percent empirical data. There’s not a single hypothesis, there’s not a single opinion in the entire thing. I don’t know where anywhere else in the world you can get this.

Jason Hartman: That’s true. What about certain affiliate platforms? Do you recommend a certain platform with which to do your affiliate program, or a certain type of compensation schedule?

Bill Ganz: I have a number of companies I work with depending on the kind of loyalty offer or the kind of affiliate offer. Whether it’s an Amazon-ian type long tail or whether it’s a true affiliate program, a 2×2, a forced matrix, or a 3×3, or 2×7, there’s so many.

Jason Hartman: And there, I have to ask, Bill, what’s the difference between affiliate marketing and multi-level or network marketing? They’re close, but they’re not really the same.

Bill Ganz: They’re not really the same at all. Like ad-affiliate networks for web based marketing, brokers, commodities, cost-per-click, cost-per-lead, cost-per-thousand, cost-per-action. So affiliate marketing does that onsite and offsite advertising for web based marketing, and that’s a little headier, more complex. Affiliate marketing and the network marketing, multi-level marketing, party planning, or multi-level marketing business is very different because it’s a compensation plan that says if I bring two people and they get two people and they get two people –

Jason Hartman: We’ve all heard that pitch.

Bill Ganz: And it’s bigger than ever. According to the, there are 71 million people doing it in the U.S.

Jason Hartman: The Direct Selling Association.

Bill Ganz: Yeah,, the Direct Selling Association of America out of Washington, which is the largest body, which is Amway and Herbalife and all these different companies. Seventy-one million in the U.S. and growing, that grow in down economies largely. And so you could also go to the, which is out of Newport Beach here where your office is, and that’s the Multi-Level Marketing Association, you can see there are hundreds of millions of people globally that do this. And when better than now?

To develop loyalty programs, you’re already going to buy products. And if you’re going to buy them and make money and you’re already going to buy them, there’s an enormous benefit to that. One has to be cautious in the kind of company they go to, but with a little bit of web research, you could type the subject into Google. If somebody tells you about a home-based business or an opportunity, type it in and see if you read any negative reports. Or read the positive reports or click on the Google or YouTube videos and really do the research because I think they’re very positive, very strong.

Jason Hartman: And listeners should probably know or think of this already, if they’re not thinking about it, that you’re always going to see a negative report out there. A lot of times, it’s a competitor or occasionally, everyone’s had someone who went wrong. In terms of affiliate marketing, before we leave that subject, is there anything else you want to talk about there?

Bill Ganz: Well, to me, it’s rewarding the pre-sumer, the person that’s already the brand evangelist, who’s the alpha dog of that industry, who wants to be heard. It goes back to the title of my book, The Belonging Networks. In the six basic human needs, belonging is No. 1, derived by two components. Their contribution equals their significance, whether it’s a charity. People all want to give. Make a difference in your life. It doesn’t matter what charity. People plateau after a while, after you give to Salvation Army, you give to United Way, and you don’t ever see anything happen. And then you hear that the CEO absconded with some of it. Then you get disillusioned on it.

But if you knew that your action or your efforts or your time or your money or your resources could make a difference in a child’s life, for breast cancer walk, in any kind of charity, you’d do it. And so you have to make it a tangible thing to where people’s efforts they can see. It’s measurable. “Make a difference in your life” has two meanings, and I think with affiliate marketing, you could be rewarded for your efforts either karmetically or financially or socially or politically, whatever they are, if you understand the power of affiliate marketing. Harnessing the brand of evangelists, there’s always a cost of acquisition in a customer. It’s just where you put that money. Do you put it back in the person who’s really going to influence the brand? Or do you put it back in advertising, or do you put it back in the bank? Those are decisions every business has to make.

Jason Hartman: And that evangelist, though, probably you’re going to say that can be the most powerful, the best ROI, right?

Bill Ganz: I would think so, yeah. You could move a brand. We just got done working with an agency in Santa Monica, and the CEO was there and he said, “Bill, we’ve had a blog killing us since 2007.” I said, “Did you answer it?” And he said, “Can you?”

Jason Hartman: Whoa, when you say that, so they got some bad PR, there’s a blog that is like anti their company, right?

Bill Ganz: Yeah, which is great.

Jason Hartman: Listeners don’t know this. There are a lot of these sites out there, they call them the “Hate Sites” or the “Suck Sites,” like “Verizon Sucks” or “AT&T Sucks,” or whatever, and there will be people that will go there and complain about their cell phone service or their lousy misdeeds that they’ve done and so forth. And so this company had that problem. Someone set up a website that was bashing them, right?

Bill Ganz: Yep. And the key to that is really understanding this. If somebody is so upset at a company, like Verizon or any company you could imagine, and they willing to go onto a third-party site, take their time and rant and rave, why is that? Because they can’t get someone in customer service; because they sat on hold for four hours.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, totally true. Usually, if you can just communicate with your customer, for God’s sake, I mean, literally, these companies have done such a good job of putting up this giant wall of voice mail, making it impossible to find a phone number on their website, making it impossible to actually talk with a human being, that that is costing corporate America a fortune.

Bill Ganz: You can look at Zappos; you can look at Jet Blue. They’ve gone to Twitter. They have a real-time person online monitoring the chat 24 hours a day. If you say something, they get you an answer in real-time and everyone is looking at it. So I just gave a speech where I was a keynote speaker on Social Media and Conversational Marketing, and the subject was, “The only place you can hide is in the public” because of transparency and convergence. The only place you can hide anymore is in the public. If you type Bill Ganz into Yahoo, there are 8.4 million pages. If you type into Google, there are 6.4 million pages. And you could keep going on. There isn’t a single negative because I haven’t done anything wrong to anybody. If somebody has had a challenge, I’ve fixed it. I’ve done whatever. But I’m a problem solver as an agency.

But if you aren’t willing to do it, traditionally, the reason why this is going to be so ubiquitous in the next several years is that an agency will tell a brand, you know, we’re having about 30 percent chargeback or return on the product or whatever. There are always at least 30 percent bad customers. What? Bad customers? They buy your product under a belief system and they got home and it didn’t work and they’re bad customers?

Jason Hartman: How can they be bad? You should thank them.

Bill Ganz: Yeah, so I mean if there’s something broken, fix it. But imagine if you’re Epson and you launched a printer, and it was $8,100. It was for large format for digital print-up companies. And something went wrong with the rip in the first week. You could fix it in the first week. You could answer back to a blog. You could get back to them, say you apologize, and as a CEO, I want to send you a coupon for $100 off of ink, and we’re sorry for the inconvenience, and we’re going to ship you a new printer.

Jason Hartman: Well, let me tell you, Bill, that is the time when you really earn a customer.

Bill Ganz: Oh, for life.

Jason Hartman: You’re a total evangelist when you turn around – and I’ve noticed it over the years in business – when you turn around someone who had a bad experience, and you really come to their rescue, they love you. I mean it is like it is the most decent thing you could possibly do. And it’s one of the smartest things you could possibly do.

Bill Ganz: Imagine in the old days, if it were Epson, they would get a focus group, they would get a street team, they would get a marketing group, get an agency. Now, if a product skew is only in rotation for six months, but this study takes 18 months to come back, and you come back with the data, “Nope, everything’s okay,” well, the skew is already dead, so product manufacturing anymore, especially with 2D barcodes, you can go into a store. With my phone, I can hit a 2D barcode. I can find the cheapest price, where it’s available, whether I should buy it online or down the street, or if this is the best price. Now, I think of customer service.

Jason Hartman: There’s an app for that on the iPhone.

Bill Ganz: Right now for 2D bar coding and you’re going in ubiquitously. It’s in Asia and Europe. We’re just catching on. But in the next two years, you’ll see it on every product ever made.

But now I say to myself, Best Buy has this enormously strong policy. Costco has this policy. So I’m going to buy there versus the headache online, versus some Mom and Pop shop that has no return policy. So if I need to get active real-time data, if I need to hear – which are the two biggest costs in manufacturing is customer support and technical support. So if I look at those two soft costs and I took them down the way Jet Blue or Zappos did, I virtually eliminated them because there’s an employee always on it. It cost me no more money.

The two largest costs in manufacturing is technical support and customer service. What if that was eliminated? You’re talking about a billion dollar savings.

Jason Hartman: Very, very significant. Well, you know, Bill, on your card, you have lead generation, media architecture, social media strategy, and search engine marketing. We didn’t touch exactly on search engine marketing or exactly on lead generation, but I think this whole talk is about both of those, right?

Bill Ganz: Sure. Our higher end, enterprise-based products are talked more on those subjects, but today, clearly, it’s getting the subject into the search engines, getting the subject into conversational marketing, and getting the subjects into search engine optimization. When you do that scientifically, results produce. You never need to think about it.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, never needing to think about it, that’s a great way to look at it because there’s not a lot of necessity for a bunch of judgment calls in this. It’s very scientific on the internet, which is great. And then I’d say engaging the customer and treating them right and nurturing that relationship forever, right?

Bill Ganz: Yep. If you flip the card over, you can see what we say, but it says, “Drilling for customers, engaging your audience.” So you have to do that. That’s a business – it doesn’t matter what business, online or offline – that’s how it works. In television, it was the same way. Roadside billboards, magazines, radio, newspaper, any of these things, it’s the same. It’s just different. And today, people have switched. With the internet, they now no longer want to know what you do. They want to know how you do it. And yet, there are tens of thousands of more moving parts today than there were in traditional media, but they have to know how it all works.

So finding a company that can help you with learned knowledge versus learning is immediate success. I have Webby awards and Telly awards and Horizon awards and DV awards and Media Architecture awards and AVA awards, and the list goes on. So it’s not accidental for 25 years we’ve helped companies understand the strategy. And it’s not accidental that 12 years ago, we inadvertently created the first social network with the first digital rights management tool.

So as a media guy, I go what happens if the 97 percent cost of buying the airtime goes away and you’re only stuck with the 3 percent content? You’re at this prosperity paradigm where it’s better, faster, cheaper, with measurable responses.

Jason Hartman: And you know what I think is interesting about that is that’s going to give the little guy, who’s trying to launch a small business, a solopreneur, that’s going to lead to a lot more opportunity. The playing field has already been dramatically leveled in the past ten years. It’s not exactly the Thomas Friedman “the world is flat” deal, but it reminds me of that metaphor. And there’s never been a time in human history when everyone has such access as they do now.

Bill Ganz: The little guy actually has a better opportunity than the big guy right now because the little guy is going to do what they call “Me too” modeling. They’re going to go and steal their meta-value. It’s not stealing, by the way. It’s internet marketing. They’re going to take their traffic through metadata. They’re going to take the Latent Semantic Indexing, which is a keyword and phrase, what the consumer typed in, and they’re going to take the success of the traffic, and they’re going to use the momentum.

I could “Me Too” model a start-up brand against Johnson and Johnson. We could do it any vertical because if they’ve already created traffic, second is the closest first. As long as you look at first as the best, you do what they’re doing because it’s all totally transparent; you can’t hide it on the internet. You do what they’re doing. Now you’re equal to them. Now you do something better than them because they’re No. 1. They’re probably not doing a lot right. And that’s true in the case of the UFC versus UWC. The UFC is a multi-billion dollar organization. UFC is a startup organization doing very well. But we can be equal to them in hours.

Jason Hartman: Right. That’s amazing.

Bill Ganz: That’s in hours!

Jason Hartman: It’s an amazing opportunity. It really is.

Bill Ganz: And if a bigger customer with one one-millionth of the cost.

Jason Hartman: Excellent. Well, Bill Ganz, thank you so much for joining us today. That was a fantastic interview. You are a very passionate man. You are into this stuff.

Bill Ganz: That’s coming from Jason Hartman, please.

Jason Hartman: You’re more passionate than I am, but that’s great. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.

Bill Ganz: It’s my pleasure.

Announcer: Copyright The Hartman Media Company. For publication rights and interviews, please email HYPERLINK “” This show offers very general information concerning real estate for investment purposes. Opinions of guests are their own. Jason Hartman is acting as president of Platinum Properties Investor Network exclusively. Nothing contained herein should be considered personalized personal, financial, investment, legal, or tax advice. Every investor’s strategy and goals are unique. You should consult with a licensed real estate broker or agent or other licensed investment, tax, and/or legal advisor before relying on any information contained herein. Information is not guaranteed. Please call (714) 820-4200 and visit HYPERLINK “” for additional disclaimers, disclosures, and questions.

End of Audio

Duration: 53 minutes