Whether you’re trying to get a raise at your job, solve a relationship problem, or deal with a stubborn child, negotiating is a daily part of our lives, and every human interaction is affected by emotion and logic or rationalization. Jason Hartman interviews the author of Getting More, Stuart Diamond on improving negotiating skills and interactions with others in order to “get more.” Stuart stresses the importance of making the human connection and finding the pictures in people’s heads, knowing them better in order to better meet their needs, which gives a person a more competitive edge and adds tremendous wealth to any deal. Listen at: www.JasonHartman.com. Emotions play a huge part in all interactions. “Emotions destroy negotiations because they distract people from their goals,” says Stuart. When people get emotional, they stop listening, and it becomes a priority to find out a person’s emotional temperature before proceeding on any deal. Stuart talks about key points in how people should treat one another, stating how people today have a lack of trust in one another and have a tendency to demonize one another rather than using simple solutions to solve conflicts. “Fighting is the last choice; not the first choice,” explains Stuart. Stuart Diamond has taught and advised on negotiation and cultural diversity to corporate and government leaders in more than 40 countries, including in Eastern Europe, former Soviet Republics, China, Latin America, the Middle East, Canada, South Africa and the United States. He holds an M.B.A. with honors from Wharton Business School, ranked #1 globally by The Financial Times where he is currently a professor from practice. For more than 90% of the semesters over the past 15 years his negotiation course has been the most popular in the school based on the course auction, and he has won multiple teaching awards. He has taught negotiation at Harvard Law School, from which he holds a law degree and is a former Associate Director of the Harvard Negotiation Project. He has directed a negotiation consulting firm in Cambridge, MA.
Mr. Diamond is president of Global Strategy Group, which advises companies and governments on negotiating foreign investment and devising strategies, structures and marketing to compete effectively on an international scale: essentially the skills of planning and persuasion. He advises senior corporate and government officials on building internal coalitions and harmony to be more effective and competitive in an environment of constant change. He has analyzed competitive and persuasive strategies for organizations as different as Merck, Citibank, General Electric, BASF, Prudential, the Government of Colombia, a $16 billion petrochemical company in China and scientists in Ukraine. He advises U.S. and foreign companies on developing more effective communications and media relations, strategic focus, problem-solving, creative options, and persuading vendors and customers. He is an expert in cross-cultural negotiation and has advised on the subject to executives of some of the world’s leading companies. He has consulted extensively for the United Nations. In a prior career Mr. Diamond, who also holds a B.A. in English from Rutgers University, was a journalist. He wrote extensively, including at Newsday and The New York Times, where he won the Pulitzer Prize as a part of a team investigating the crash of the space shuttle Challenger in 1986. He covered many major crises including the Bhopal chemical leak in India, the Three Mile Island nuclear accident in Pennsylvania and the Chernobyl nuclear accident in the former Soviet Union. He has written two books, two documentary films and more than 2,000 published articles, dozens on page one of The New York Times. He has appeared on Today and Good Morning America and lectured widely about the problems and prospects of emerging markets, and international business challenges in an environment of change. His new book on negotiation, Getting More, was published by Random House in December 2010, and became a New York Times Bestseller in January 2011.
Mr. Diamond was an executive of a Wall Street energy futures brokerage firm, for which he negotiated a multimillion dollar sale. He has worked at the law firm of Sullivan & Cromwell and the investment bank of Morgan Stanley. He founded or directed entrepreneurial ventures in medical services and wireless technologies. He has advised on environmental regulations, privatization and intellectual property protection in emerging markets from Chile to Kuwait. He advised the President’s office in Bolivia, Colombia and Nicaragua. He persuaded 3,000 people in the jungles of Bolivia to stop growing illicit coca and to start growing bananas exported to Argentina. He advises a variety of high technology companies and in 2000 played a lead role in putting together a $300 million merger of two high-tech companies that had been on the verge of litigation. He became the first chairman of the merged companies, Summus, Inc., listed on OTC. In 2004 he represented the borrower in completing the largest foreign-sourced commercial financing in the history of Ukraine, a $107.5 million Eurobond issue to finance commercial space ventures. In June, 2005, he became Chairman and CEO of Four Star Aviation of St. Thomas, in which he is a 50% owner. In 2006 he represented The N.Y Commodities Exchange in the successful negotiation of electronic trading rights with the N.Y. Mercantile Exchange. In 2008, he provided the process that enabled the Writer’s Guild to settle their strike with the studios in Hollywood. Diamond has taught negotiation at the business schools of Columbia, NYU, USC, UCal/Berkeley, and at Oxford and Penn Law School, where he is an Adjunct Professor. Participants have included managers and executives from 51 of the Global 100 companies and 124 of the Global 500, including IBM, Microsoft, JP Morgan, Exxon, Honda, Hewlett Packard, Yahoo, G.E., Lucent, Japan Airlines, SAP, Prudential, and leaders from a broad range of disciplines, including medicine, law, high technology, manufacturing, energy, chemicals, politics, information, biotechnology, sales, mergers & acquisitions. He has taught extensively in executive programs at Wharton and elsewhere to very high ratings.
Introduction: Welcome to creating wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before and a new slant on investing. Fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible.
Jason: is a genuine self-made multimillionaire who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. He has been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 States and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom. You really can do it and now here is your host Jason: Hartman with the complete solution for real-estate investors.
Jason: Hey welcome to the Creating Wealth Show, and thank you so much for joining me today and this is Jason: Hartman your host and this is Epsiode#247. You know adaptation. Adaptation is key to survival whether it would be in business, nature whether you are talking about Darwinism or whatever he case. Adaptation and flexibility in your approach, we’ve noticed that the trees get damaged and knocked over in a storm or the ones that are rigid were the ones that bend, and the ones that go with the wind are the ones that survive the storm, and that’s the key really it is.
And you know we talk about income property being a multi-dimension asset class, so regardless of what is happening out there whether prices are going up or down in terms of the overall value of the property. If they are going down for example we treat it as an income producing asset, treat it like a bond, don’t trade it.
The property is sustainable because we believe in sustainable investing, so we just now get for cash flow if proprieties are appreciating which I don’t think we are going to have any time soon in any real way then we can flip the properties.
We can sell them and we can make March capital gain investments, and those are obviously much more speculative, but you know hey I’ve been on the right side of that equation many times, and profited very handsomely, so adaptation is key in anything in life being flexible in ones approach so that we can adapt and seek out opportunities where they lie, and you know I saw an interesting thing.
It was on Facebook. One of my friends posted this, and it really reminded me of my approach to income property investing. I’ve said for several years now I am no longer an optimist. In fact, I am very pessimistic about many, many things with the world nowadays especially as they come to economics and to situations with governments and businesses and Wall Street and so forth, but in many ways I am an optimist, so I say though as far a clear economic perspective I am no longer an optimist overall.
But again in this statement there are ways to make it optimistic and ways to profit. I am no longer an optimist. Overall though, I am not a pessimist either. I am not even a realist, I’m an opportunist and that’s what you should be an opportunist. Anyway one of my friends posted this cute little thing.
It says dear optimist, pessimist and realist while you guys were busy arguing about the glass of water I drank it sincerely the opportunist and that’s exactly the way you need to be. Stop listening to all your friends and the naysayers and your relatives who may be well intentioned or may not be, or just be an opportunist and take advantage of the opportunities out there.
But speaking of adaptation one of America’s most renowned companies Kodak, Kodak Shutterfly recently acquired them or at least part of their business for only $23.8. This is really an unbelievable story when you see a company that made so many blunders along the way to digital photography.
Remember when the transition was starting to occur from digital or from film to digital Kodak came out with this in between thing and they spend a ton of money on it, and it was really — I used to use it for a couple of years there, but it was really not a very good idea.
They should have just stuck with regular film and let it die its natural death and then moved into digital, but yet they tried to bridge that gap with something I remember what it was called Advantix. IX, TIX at the end, Advantix.
And Kodak is basically died. I mean Shutterfly bought their online business for only $23.8 million, and they say that they really did it for the patents, and they say those patterns could be worth $2 billion, but Apple is claiming that it owns one of the patents, and is seeking approval from the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York to sue Kodak over this patent dispute, so will we see Kodak reemerge from bankruptcy as a lean, mean, slim, trim down innovative company again I don’t know.
Unfortunately I kind of doubt it, but that’s an example I think of another company that probably will just go down in history as a dinosaur one of America’s most amazing companies in its day Kodak once probably I don’t know what the market cap of Kodak was but once probably billions and billions of dollars for sure, an amazing company, $23.8 million is what Shutterfly purchased through online photo services business for amazing, really kind of sad.
And the Kodak gallery itself that business has 75 million users, and its just wow. It’s just an amazing story, so that can happen to us as investors too folks. We’ve got to adapt and change with the times, and play by the new rules, and the new rules really the cosmic shift, the tectonic shift in the new rules was 1971, but its been shifting ever since then quite a bit, and we talk about that in the show throughout all the episodes.
I talk about these funny commercial properties and I call them funny because they are so ridiculous sometimes these huge pension funds, and insurance company investors, and big institutional investors, just drive the cap rates lower and lower and lower to squeeze out a 100, really not a 100, 50 basis points on a deal which is just, its unbelievable.
So look at this deal, David’s Bridal. Okay have you read of David’s Bridal? Well, you know I got this email. This is Lee & Associates Commercial Brokerage, David’s Bridal in Santa Maria, California. They are offering this property at 2 million 60,000 and the cap rate, there the cap rate is only 6.25%.
That stinks. This building was remodeled in 2012. It doesn’t say what the actual age of it was. You’ve got a 10 year triple net lease okay so again investors like those for simplicity, but I would like it too if the cap rate went higher, but listen to this, the building itself the approximate size of building is 4800 and 60 square feet for over $2 million.
Do the math. Do the division. The per square foot price on this building is a whopping $423.87 per square foot. Are you kidding me? That’s unbelievably expensive. You can go to jasonhartman.com and you can look at properties all day long with cap rates between 8.5% and there may be a few that are lower, but I doubt it, and again you know I don’t think cap rate is the ultimate measure, but it’s the comparison the commercials people use so that’s what I am doing apples to apples.
You can find cap rates on our website up to 14% so and per square foot cost is low as $30 per square foot. You know I get it that the retail property is a little more expensive to build. Its glass and steel and stucco versus sticks and bricks and stucco and its siding, but not that much difference, $30 a square foot to $423 a square foot totally ridiculous.
Hey I want to thank our listener [Brant 0:08:30.9] thanks for the email and we just quote the other day. And this is a great quote by the way. And its Milton Friedman, I am a big fan of Milton Friedman okay. If you haven’t read any of his books that guy just makes way too much sense, the late Milton Friedman but just an awesome thinker about economics and governments and so forth.
And the quote is inflation is taxation without legislation. Let me repeat that. Milton Friedman, inflation is taxation without legislation that’s a great quote. And you know [Brant] really you are right that is absolutely true what Friedman says.
However, I would only say one thing. Actually inflation is legislated. Its not legislated directly, but it’s legislated its like debt by a million little cuts, right, or by a thousand little cuts. A million would be too many, but you know debt by a thousand little cuts. And what it is?
Its not cuts. It’s cutting us. Its cutting our, the value of our currency, but its increasing government spending, and that’s where you get inflation from that constant legislation to increase spending. You know I served on a lot of committees and a lot of charity boards and so forth over the years, and I’ll tell you I was just kind of frustrated with it because decision by committee it just never works.
I would sit in those meetings, and everybody wants to be nice, and everybody wants to be courteous and no one is being the real leader because it’s like decision by committee, and my quote is when it’s everybody’s money it’s nobody’s money. Someone has got to be responsible and this is the inherent problem with government at every level. It just doesn’t work.
We talk about precious metals sometimes, and just the idiocy of this. Well, I got this email from Peter Schiff and again I love — Peter Schiff’s thinking is great. I like his books. I think he is the master of the sound byte. I lost a bunch of money investing with his company Euro Pacific Capital.
I thought they have lousy service. I was totally unimpressed, but again to hear him talk, I like what he has to say. I mean I am a big fan in terms of that I wish Peter Schiff would really make another one at government. I vote for him hands down. He just makes a lot of sense to me.
Here he is pitching his gold IRA. And the email says this. It’s got a picture of Peter. Its got a some stacks of bars of gold there. And it says investing in physical metals in your IRA is a simple process da, da, da, much less complicated than it sounds.
Many of our clients have golden, silver in their IRA. You can too. The following information illustrates the three simple steps involved. Number one, open an account with the precious metals approved IRA custodian okay and tells you what his company will do.
Number two, transfer into your new IRA account. Number three, place your metals order with your specific precious metals. Well, you know I’ve talked about all the inherent problems with precious metals gold and silver. Again I think that they are okay, but defensive strategy.
But here it’s interesting we could them as no more folks. What, what you have to do? You cannot take possession of these metals not legally in within your IRA. Now, I remember our prior guest in the show [Mike Dillon 0:11:44.4] was promoting this strategy and so far as I know its not legal because what I ask our guy about it, and he said well what people are doing is they did check book control of their IRA, and you know I have this by myself.
You set up an IRA LLC. You have check book control. And you know unless the IRA audits you, you know you can go, call up the precious metals dealer and buy some gold and have them ship it to you, and stick it in your safe or your deposit box or bury it in the ground or do whatever you are going to do with it, but that’s not legal that would disqualify that would be considered a distribution from your IRA.
So what Peter’s plan is doing is they are saying yes you can buy these metals in your IRA, but they will keep them or the company they designate brinks or whatever will keep them in a safe somewhere with your name on it. Again isn’t that for your money folks that’s just nonsensical to me.
I don’t get it. Why does anyone believe that that would actually work that’s just a form. All you are getting is paper, and we are trying for your money. If you are going to buy metals, take possession of them. And if you take possession of them don’t keep them in your house.
My grandfather he collected coins, and he had home invasion robbery, so you mustn’t in your own house if you ask me. I am not going to say where to keep them. I am not going to say safe deposit box is any better because you could have problems there too, but I wouldn’t keep in my house, and if I did I certainly wouldn’t want anybody to know about it okay.
So again you might as well just buy shares at a mining company I guess if you are going to do that. You know shares in the gold ETF if you are going to do that because you don’t have physical metals. The misnomer here is what Peter says right at the beginning. It says investing in physical metals in your IRA is a simple process, no it’s not because the metals are not in your possession. They are in a safe. All you are really getting in the final analysis in my opinion is fiat money, and again I am not going to go into that in debt.
I have explained in on the prior show my feelings about that and that was just a few episodes ago. I really went on a rant about it. Last thing before we get to we’ve got a couple of different speakers on today’s show. We are going to have two speakers.
One the first one that we will have next is [Randy Hughes 0:13:59.0] who is talking about land trust, and I am really excited about this because he will be speaking in our upcoming Meet the Masters event. First time we’ve had them there.
Again I heard a lot of, kind of in my opinion marginal guy speaking on this topic, but I like Randy, I like his approach. I think he is conservative. I think he is for real, and I think you will like what he is to say so he is speaking at the upcoming Meet the Masters.
We are going to hear a little bit from him at the moment, and then we are going to hear from Doug about what he is talking about, and our guest today is Stuart: Diamond who is a great author who has written some great stuff on negotiation and how to get ahead in life wining through a win-win philosophy so you will like that.
Last thing before we get to it you know I talked about this pool of money investing, and how I like being a direct investor I say, pools are for fools thou shalt maintain control commandment number three in my ten commandments for successful investing. You’ve heard me talk about it too many times.
I was looking at this one of this private place, my memorandums, and I was looking at the disclaimer and I just want to read it to you real quickly because tell me how you would feel, now listen we make it disclaimers too. I get it, but no one can predict the future.
Nobody knows. Every investment has risks. I get it. I get it folks, but just listen to this disclaimer, and tell me how comfortable it makes you feel as an investor. This investment is not liquid involves tax and business risk, and conflicts of interest. I love that one conflicts of interest.
They are disclosing it to you right away that there are conflicts of interest I will go on. There is no public or other market for the transaction nor is it likely that any such market will develop. A purchaser may be required to retain his interest in a transaction and bear the economic risk of the investment for an infinite period okay.
The securities offered hereby have not registered or approved or disapproved by the United States Securities and Exchange Commission or by the Securities Regulatory Authority of any state, nor has any commission or authority passed upon or endorsed the merits or accuracy of this offering.
The sponsor reserves the right to withdraw or modify this offering into reject any investment in whole or in part. This offering does not constitute an offer to sell or solicitation of in offer to buy any of the securities offered hereby in any state or to any person to whom it is unlawful to make such offer within such state.
The investment in real property offered hereby is being offered pursuant to an exemption from registration under the Securities Act of 1933 as amendment. Boy that just shows you how slowly the law changes with the times. We are still talking about the Securities Act of 1933 amazing. That’s not really common on the disclaimer; it’s more common on the legal system.
Any reproduction or distribution of this offering in whole or in part or the divulgence of any of its contents to any person other than a qualified investor as defined by the Securities Act of 1933 is strictly prohibited. Gosh I hope I didn’t break that rule by reading their disclaimer. Folks be a direct investor that’s the bottom line.
Invest in things you control. Stop falling for the stuff, stop falling for this physical gold that you don’t really have. The physical gold or silver, stop getting into these pools. Pools are for fools. Be a direct investor. Control your financial future. Be your own best advisor. Invest in things that you know, you learn about, you control where there isn’t some fund manager who might be dishonest, who might be incompetent or assume they are honest, assume they are competent they take a big management fee off the top for managing the deal.
Enough said let’s get on and let’s hear from [Randy Hughes 0:17:50] and then from Doug, and then we will hear from Stuart: Diamond and we will talk about negotiation and getting ahead with a win-win philosophy looking forward to seeing you at Meet the Masters just here in a couple of weeks. Register for that at jasonhartman.com, and let’s talk to Randy then to Doug, then to Stuart.
Introduction: What’s great about the show is you will find on jasonhartman.com is that if you want to learn how to finance your next big real estate deal there is a show for that. If you want to learn more about food storage, and the best way to keep those onions from smelling up everything else there is a show for that.
If you honestly want to know more about business ethics, there is a show for that. And if you just want to get away from at all, need to know something about world travel, there is even a show for that. Yeah there is a show for just about anything only from jasonhartman.com or type in Jason Hartman in the iTune store.
Jason: You know one of the really exciting speakers we have coming up is a new speaker for us at Meet the Master and that is [Randy Hughes 0:19:01] who is an expert on land trust, and I will tell you I have read a lot about this over the years. I have heard different people speak about it.
None of them have ever really resonated with me. I have never felt really good about how they presented and so forth until I talk to Randy, and we talked for about an hour, did a whole interview about the topic, and I am glad to say he will speaking at the upcoming Meet the Masters event. Randy, how are you?
Randy: Randy how are you? Doing good Jason, thanks for inviting me. I’m really looking forward to telling and speaking to your organization. Its going to be really, really interesting because I teach land trust information to real estate investors all over the United States, and its important to realize that land trust can be used in almost every state in the country unlike [corrupt 0:19:45.0] a lot of people say and some attorney say, land trust are legal in almost every state so you can use them all over the country and I would [refer 0:19:50.9] to that.
Jason: There are some fantastic benefits to land trust aren’t there?
Randy: Well, there are. And in fact for everybody who attends this event, I am going to provide them with a list of 50 reasons to use the land trust. There is just so much to cover that we certainly can’t do it here what we are talking here today, but I will give everybody 50 reasons to use a land trust and we will discuss many are very important reasons at your event, but suffice it to say that land trust are great privacy tools, and every real estate investor needs to learn how to do this to keep his name out of the county records, and to keep people from tracking what they are doing, so it makes them very private in there, in their business.
And the other thing teach how to do is to link these privacy tools up with asset protection tools like LLCs, corporations and other trust.
Jason: And you know Randy, I got to say something when I talk to you for about an hour on this topic what I loved is your very creative idea, and deceptively simple about how you name your trust because that in and of itself, and doing give it away now. You will give it away at Meet the Masters, but that in of itself is a huge asset protection tool right there and it was brilliant what you said.
Randy: Well, it really is, and I really get into this stuff myself. I am a real estate investor Jason: that’s how I make my living, and I have been for 40 years. I have been using this land trust for 30 years, so I really have a street smart sense of how to use them, and how to teach real estate investors, how to use them. Unlike some people that have some knowledge about land trust, but don’t really have the ability to apply that knowledge at a street level, and that’s what I bring to the table, and that’s what your listeners will want to learn about at this event, and that’s what I am going to teach them at this event, and I will give them not only the information on 50 Reasons To Use a Land Trust, but I am also going to give them at no cost a booklet called Land Trust A Must Read Report.
And these are publications that I have written that really helped to clarify what land trust are all about and the benefits and how to use them, so I am really excited about being there, talking to your people and opening their eyes to something that they have probably never ever used before, but they should be using in every real estate transaction.
Jason: And what I found in our interview, and what I can’t wait to hear you will present on at the upcoming Meet the Masters about Randy is I found that this was extremely simple. It was extremely inexpensive, and it’s just something that behaves investors to do, so I am really looking forward to speak. There is a few not a lot of people, but there is a few people out there talking about this stuff in our industry and all of them seem kind of hype, and you know like they are making a lot of promises that you could tell they just weren’t true.
And I just thought you had a very realistic, very grounded, very legitimate approach to it. So, I am really looking forward to having you for our very first time at the upcoming Meet at the Master’s event. Any last thought you want to leave people with about this?
Randy: Well, I would like people to think along these lines. They are spending a lot of time, and in some cases a lot of money to learn how to build real estate wealth and network for themselves and their families. I encourage them to spend a little bit of time to learn how to protect that wealth because you don’t want to end up at my age, and have it all taken away from you because you didn’t learn how to protect which you worked so hard to get.
Jason: And this is easy and simple and inexpensive as the way to do it, much less expensive than a lot of stuff being promoted out there.
Jason: So Randy we look forward to seeing you there. Thanks.
Randy: Okay, alright, thanks a lot for inviting me Jason.
Jason: Hey I wanted to have Doug back on to talk to you a little bit about Meet the Masters and what he is going to discuss at that event. Doug, how are you?
Doug: Doing well Jason, how about yourself?
Jason: Good. So you got two speaking slots as you usually do at the upcoming Meet the Masters event. What are you going to talk about this time?
Doug: So the first slot that I have is called Rethinking Wealth Building and the whole idea behind this is that conventional wisdom for wealth building is actually making people very, very susceptible to a large collapse or as I call a big sink hole which actually gets into the second line, in my second segment which is what I call the 401K sink hole.
And the thing that I really want to bring out, or the thing that I want to emphasize from to this Masters because all the Masters are just really, its such a great opportunity for people to learn because I think we really bring in perspectives that you don’t see in the mainstream media.
But anyway the thing that I really want to bring out with both of my segments is how the rules are changing for people that want to build wealth so they can retire comfortably. Nobody is telling you about how the rules are changing because most people don’t know about it, and that’s not an accident.
The simple fact of matter, and we talk about swap. Simple fact of matter is that the government is, has made a lot of promises they can’t keep, and they don’t have the money to keep those promises, and they are going to either need to confiscate a lot of peoples wealth overly some taxations to nationalizing retirement plans or by inflating the currency or all three.
And if you aren’t aware of how those things are going to impact your financial assets, and if you haven’t prepared you will be at great risk of peril in the later years of your life, so the real thing that we are doing is we are teaching people how to change the decisions they make so that the likely unfortunate events of the future don’t disseminate their finances.
Jason: And then there are a lot of events coming up that are very scary. I mean things are changing so quickly right now, and people need to constantly be adapting themselves to the changes. When you look at a storm, the trees that get damaged are the trees that are inflexible that do not bend with the wind, and you have to have some solid principles that would represent maybe the trunk of the tree. Those are your solid principles and your solid goals.
But your plan of attacking your strategy to achieve those goals, and maintain your principles has to be somewhat flexible in your way to look at it, and the rules are changing faster than ever in the world of retirement saving, and wealth creation, and asset protection so very good points. What else?
Doug: So one of the other things that I really want to talk about, or one of the points that I like to consistently make is that the traditional financial models of for the last 40 years have all been based on compounded appreciation. I am sure you have seen the chart that says if you invest $7 a month, you know like $17 a month starting when you are 15 years old and you compounded 10% a year you would be a millionaire by the time you will retire or something like that.
But what goes left unsaid in all of these models is that you are going to be able to consistently compounded higher rate of return. Well, anybody who have looked at the rates of return now is I think the dividend yield for the S&P 500s like 23.1%, the 10 year bond is less than 2%.
Jason: And after inflation —
Jason: And after inflation it’s like negative 12%.
Jason: And after inflation and taxes because remember you get tax before inflation happens it’s probably about negative 14%.
Doug: Exactly it’s the yields available on investments have actually gotten toward to dip negative violation and because you are — in the old days if you are nearing your retirement, you put your money in bonds. Bonds are safer. They pay guaranteed yield. But if you are only getting a yield that’s 2% and even the inflation, the government admits is to like 3 or 4, and the real inflation is close to 7 or 8, you are just going to be losing ground every year.
And so the thing is that in the old model right where you could do is, you could steadily invest, and you could compound wealth, and then the idea was you would eventually be rich, but you cannot compound your weight of wealth using the same vehicles that worked in the 80 and 90s.
The model has just flipped upside down, and so you need to find a new, a different way to compound. Otherwise unless you started wealthy, you won’t be able to build, you know to build from say a — to build from modest meetings to a wealthy retirement unless you can find a way to compound faster than what we’ve all been told to do for the majority of our lives.
Jason: Well, all I can say is that the best way to become a millionaire in the stock market is to start with 2 million so, so good. Well, hey well, I am looking forward to that, and we’ve got so many great speakers lined up for this upcoming Meet the Masters. I think we’ve got about 14 or 15 different speakers on a whole variety of topics, and those of you who are regular attendees that have attended the last 11 or 12 of them you are just going to love it.
And new attendees, be sure to register jasonhartman.com, and you are just going to love it. Its going to be a great event.
Doug: Just one thing that I wanted to say in part is if somebody is out there listening to this and they are kind of waffling on whether to come to Masters, it’s really worth attending. And the reason why is because these things you are going to hear at Masters are very like a non-boiler plate. In other words, they are not something that you can just go to other seminar and find. You know they are not the kind of thing that if you do 30 seconds in googling you will find exactly what you hear here, here from Jason: repeated somewhere else.
I have heard other people say things that are similar to Jason and then the backend is always, is always followed with up some overpriced, you know overpriced underperforming coaching program or some overpriced underperforming seminar. What Jason: does is, Jason: brings in the ability to just phenomenal information, phenomenal investment products and the price relatively speaking is pretty reasonable.
I have seen some of these Kiyosaki seminars that are just ridiculous, and they don’t even have deals for you. They just have a bunch of people that are coming in, charging these ridiculous rates, and then they hop their books the whole time.
Jason: And the person you are talking to who is your coach is a telemarketer?
Jason: Basically who has never done it, I have actually done it. I have made millions of dollars in real estate, and I know how to do it, and we are the only one Doug that has the philosophy, strategy, and product to all match together in a beautifully cohesive system where we call the complete solution for real estate investors.
Doug: Absolutely, so yeah so the thing that I would just say is that if you are thinking about coming I would highly encourage you to come by and see Meet the Masters. It is a different perspective from much of what you are going to see, and you will most of you will more likely than not be much too wiser and wealthier for it.
Jason: Absolutely. Well, thanks Doug, appreciate that, and I will look forward to seeing you there.
Doug: Okay see you there, Jason.
Jason: My pleasure to welcome Stuart Diamond to the show. He is author of Getting More: How to Negotiate to achieve your Goals in the Real World. I think you will like this approach. It’s taught at the Wharton School for the past 13 years and has achieved some very high honors, and Stuart welcome. How are you?
Stuart: Thank you. How are you?
Jason: Good. So you are coming to us today from Philadelphia right?
Stuart: I am.
Jason: Fantastic. Well, tell us about the book. You are making a lot of inroads with this book. And number five on the New York Times bestseller list, number one in the Wall Street journal and USA Today list. Congratulations on your success.
Stuart: Thank you. the book has a new model of new interaction which says that perceptions and emotions are much more important in getting agreements than the usual power and logic, evaluating the pictures in the hands of the other party produces four times much value as the usual way people do it which includes threats, logic, my way or the highway that are going to take it, or the event walking out, and even when we were in interest based negotiation I have taught 30,000 people in 45 countries over 20 years from country president to secretaries.
I have collected millions of pages of documentation, and I have seen clearly that the proposal in getting more works a lot better and in fact Google has now accepted this model by paying all 30,000 of its employees. The Wall Street Journal says this is the best book put through for your career this year, and its done everything from help people do billion dollar deals to get their kids doing when they go to bed and brush their teeth, so its been as interacted, every human interaction is affected by it.
Jason: Yeah. What you say it makes a lot of sense from a logical perspective pardoned upon because they — its often said that people make decisions based on emotion and then later rationalize them with logic. You would probably agree with that, right?
Doug: Right, well it’s the human connection. Let me give you a simple example. I had a former student who had been playing from Houston Philadelphia in the Snowstorm last winter. When the plane there was four hours late, and as the rest of the past year for [snarling 0:32:58.9] at the flight through this student, non-performance student noticed this, and off the flight through apologized for a [rough 0:33:06.0] behavior by and said to them most of them are really dragged to work an extra four hours, and kind of like today when he goes to plane, they gave him $600.
Stuart: He gave me completely free ticket, only person in the plane he did that because he made a human connection with them, and you — like the human connection was someway six times more likely to give you what you want, and so the right answer to the statement I hate you is tell me more is the right answer to the statement I like your competitors better is what you like about them, or what you don’t like about me.
It’s a question impossible not to [add 0:33:37.3] and gives you a real competitive advantage to find out the pictures in your head whether you are real estate or whether you are driving on street in the store on any kind of a job that’s finding the pictures and the heads if you have the party, and you are using that in negotiations to create more wealth and more value conversing anything else people could do.
Google tells me that the return on investment in the first 30 days is 5000% from using these tools which is to make just the most profitable activity that Google does.
Jason: Well, Stuart how can we discover those pictures in other peoples heads so that we can appeal to them?
Stuart: Well, first of all you can ask them. You can do internet research, or you can guess. If you guess right, they will be happy. Guess wrong, they will tell you what’s right. But I am in there trying to find out. I wish I know you better. I would like to know you better so I can find out how to meet your needs. If you ask me for my proposal, I have no idea what my proposal is they don’t know what your needs are.
So, I can guess but wouldn’t you rather tell me directly what your needs are, and that sort of how I teach people to negotiate better in any situation. I have a nine year old son Alexander, I don’t threaten him. I don’t say if you don’t clean your room today you can’t have like I say there is nothing better than I want to do for you today than buy you legos. Help me buy your legos. In fact I bought a legos for boys to clean rooms. Are you such a boy? He likes it a lot better.
And I do things for clients who treat me similarly. Are you such a client? I frequent stores who pay attention to my needs and we turn merchandize easily that seems to be defected by you such a store. It’s a way to give people the decision in which you value them which also quotes certain kinds of standards or behavior.
Another behavior that you add tremendous wealth is that you, you find out setting if that are different between the parties and you trade them, and it’s not just in the deal its everybody’s billion synopses. CEO of a major company in Philadelphia once told me the most important thing he ever did for his major client in a 20 year business relationship was to pick up the client’s CEO’s mother-in-law at the Philadelphia [airport standing right 0:35:53.3] has nothing to do with any deal, but it fixed every deal.
[Try Nelson 0:35:57.6]Silicon Valley had a multi-million’s art line, couldn’t get the talent, found out that the client’s [kitty 0:36:03.2] stores is having compute problems, and invested half of the day, went over to the guy’s house, to the daughter, fixed the computer and got the deal.
And so the more you know about the other side, tangible, intangible in the deal, outside the deal, the more connections you can make, and one of the big problem is that people don’t know enough about the other side.
Jason: That is really truly a way to think differently. That’s the first chapter in your book thinking differently, and I mean I was really amazed at that story you told about the airplane. No passenger has probably ever approached the flight crew that way. That’s got to be so refreshing for them. That’s just amazing.
Stuart: Yes a woman brought back the plane by realizing that it didn’t matter that the incoming plane was late, and that they gave agents said no, he realized the decision [mentioned was the pilot 0:36:47.8], and so she went over to the window, caught the pilot side and look plainly have dropped her bags. The floor held her boyfriend’s hand. The pilot brought back the plane. She went on the Paris for a life time vacation with her boyfriend.
This stuff is invisible unless you see it, unless you see it for the first time. This process are used by the way to solve the regular strike, and how it was closed to I guess there were a lot of reason. This is on California. What happened was about three years ago I got a call from Ari Emanuel who is probably the most prominent agent in Hollywood.
He is the role model for the TV show Entourage and the brother of Rahm who was White House Chief of Staff and the Mayor Chicago. Writers had been on strike for three months, no new show on TV, no contract for a year, and they wanted some advice from me on another terminal meeting they are going to have with the studio heads with subjective issues, royalty rates etcetera.
I did freaked at that stuff. Go to the meeting, and they asked the studio heads three questions. Question number one, are you guys happy? We are not happy. Question number two, are you making any money? We are not making any money. Question number three, that you had to do it over again, how would you do it? Took 30 minutes to restart the negotiations, took two days to get an agreement because they made a human connection with these guys and that is really key, and I can say two things about this.
One is not rocket science and two unless you don’t know how to do its invisible. You don’t see it unless you already know it. But all across the way somebody just walked to you. There is a service provider may be its not you, may be the man is the last customer, and if you say to them what’s eating you today? What’s wrong? They might complain about the last customer, and then when you say, you would like a [unintelligible 0:38:32] they say how about three.
They go saying appreciate that you took damage faced value and gave them the benefit of the doubt, and that’s really key and attracted to the people that are more than half the reason why people come to agreement. The facts and the evidence are less than 10%.
Jason: Very interesting. Is that what do you mean by the problem solving model or is that more complex than what you mentioned?
Stuart: Yeah the problem solving model is a bit more complex because it looks that lift my goal, and by meeting my goals. What problem do we have that’s preventing me to meeting my goals, and the third thing is that who are these people because each situation is different so what problem do I have now, and what’s my goal, and given those two I actually have to negotiate with the set of people who might even feel it differently than they felt yesterday, and I have to deal with their issues and emotions right now which brings me to the point of emotion which is part of the problem solving model.
Emotions destroy negotiations because they distract from their goals, and which you wanted to, when people get emotional they stop listening. Now that is whether its, we are a pizza billion dollar [dealing 0:39:44] like you want to have an ice-cream cone. And so the first thing you got to do in a negotiation is not talk about your evidence yet even not develop a process. You need to find out with their emotional temperatures.
And if they are angry, and I am sick they care nothing about win. When they want to make them feel better for something they are angry about, I apologize or I understand of some kind of empathy that’s what people most need. They want to be valued by other people whether you are Democrats or Republicans in Congress, or the clerk in the store, and if you value people they will pay you for.
Jason: You know I think back to Ronald Reagan. And you know he seem to be very good when he mentioned that democrats and republicans he seems to be very good at crossing the eye all and having friends on both sides not just republicans whereas his predecessor Jimmy Carter took a lot of flak for just not having any ability to get people, to get beyond bills or get any consensus going or any sort of really leadership. I mean that’s why you call a leader.
Stuart: You are so right. People liked Reagan as an individual. He treated people as individuals. He was self-depreciating, and as we saw all of that he got tremendous support, and I must also say people George Bush is a very controversial person. But he was pretty likeable, and so he got elected twice.
I think the first time because he was likeable. And the second time because he said it in his nomination acceptance speech you might not agree with where I stand at least you know where I stand. People do not necessarily expect you to agree with them. They do expect you to be straight with them, and that’s a really big idea.
And at the same point I think Barack Obama beat John McCain on the second Presidential debate. Every time it looked like McCain is going to slug Obama. Obama just smiled graciously, offered his hand which McCain didn’t take.
People expect you to be a decent human being no matter what they say in public to each other, and that’s a real key. And in fact one more thing I want to tell you listeners which is absolutely essential is their study done some years ago in France. It sounds so much mistrust. The gross national product is 5% lower and unemployment is 3% higher, and our numbers today, our reaction today that is the conflicted sign we have here for 9/11 is similar to France a few years ago. And if you want to look for a while we have unemployment that’s 9%, look no farther than the way we treat each other, and you can measure it, you can count it, and that’s where the U.S. is number five in [comparative 0:42:17] not number one.
Jason: Well, tell me what do you mean by that? Can you be more specific? First of all on the unemployment thing, we talk a lot about that on the show and how the statistics are not quite accurate, but we say unemployment is in the 20s actually when you count the discouraged workers —
Stuart: [unintelligible 0:42:29].
Jason: Whatever the number is, but what do you mean by that? I mean how is it that unemployment is –?
Stuart: I mean there is the less trust. There is more conflicts, and look at everything from [unintelligible 0:42:44] to the NFL to the NBA to Congress to the way the media portrays people both on television, radio and in the newspapers you see that people are conflicted with each other. They try to solve crisis.
Now, when you are too slick with somebody they don’t give you their best stuff, and their best stuff means you take your ideas and my ideas, and you take the best of it, and you make a new synthesis from better ideas. If you look for example the congressional jet crisis that doesn’t happen.
People demonize each other, and that cost money, and so it’s very important and let me give you a really good simple example of things that don’t happen. A former student wrote me from San Francisco. He said I was just about to, I was taken on a street corner right across the street and an old man with cane tried to cross the street and we drive with them Mercedes, and so I’m saying its convertible, and the blonde in the specialty wheeled around and nearly hit the sky, and the old man as he says what are you going by smack this to her with the rubber tip of the cane.
This guy screeches to the halt, gets out to strangle this old man, and this former student just in the middle of them, and says stop for a minute. Are you hurt? He says to the old man. No. Is your car damaged? He says to the driver who is at the door no. What’s your goal here? The guy, the driver got back in the car, drove away, and the old man continued across the street.
We don’t do enough of that. And there are simpler ways to solve our problems, and do not depend on fighting with each other. And that’s what I tried to do in getting more is to provide the anecdotes of 400 people from CEOs to school children to individuals, housewives, lawyers etcetera who did this differently and got a lot more.
Jason: Okay so let me play Devil’s Advocate with you for a moment on that. So certainly what you say makes complete sense. I mean fights are — the old saying that I always uses nobody ever wins a fight, and then I remember when [Dennis Swadley 0:44:49] years ago I was listening to one of his things, and he said there is no such thing as wining and argument. There is only wining and agreement, and I thought that was very sage.
Stuart: I think that’s good.
Jason: But is there a time when you have to fight? Are there appropriate times in life where you have to fight, or is it always just to be the peacemaker?
Stuart: I guess the point that I make is the name of my book is Getting More Not Getting Everything which is to say there are plenty of times —
Jason: Good answer by the way.
Stuart: Yeah okay.
Stuart: There are plenty of times to fight. Everybody know that there are. The point is this is the last choice, not the first choice, and so there is a lot of things you can do if you take a step back, take a deep breath and say really is this the best way to do it, and that’s the key.
And also may be I am not the right negotiator. May be this can be settled to somebody else negotiation. Somebody who is not as emotional for example, and so there is a whole series of questions I have that I want to ask you about.
What are their standards have they ever and accept you to a $200 change fee? What if they promised in terms of customer service? Is that of an argument with them I can say are you keeping your promise to me? To much more powerful question people would hate to contradict themselves and if you give them that choice they will usually imply.
Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi did that. It was very hard bargains. Mahatma Gandhi took the India to join the crowds in the British Empire without ever his voice or a weapon just simply said is the way you are treating with our people acceptable.
Martin Luther King said this is the U.S. constitution, doesn’t say that everybody has equal rights or confused about this, and even the most hard bargainers could not stand up to those questions, so there is a lot more you can do before you get to the point of violence, and if you don’t mind, I would like to bring up a current newsy political event now just to show you the problem.
Everybody is congratulating themselves at leas the governments are for Libya and Gaddafi’s at demise. I don’t get that at all. Six months ago the guy said he would negotiate. He was turned down. Instead of that, we caused the war that caused 50,000 people to die in Libya including innocent women and children, and we spent $10 billion.
Now, 30 years there was a model when the butcher of Uganda Idi Amin did the same thing. Saudi Arabia offered him a few million dollars, and a villa in Saudi Arabia, and he left. I don’t know why or we just don’t check the internet for models, so and actually wasn’t — I’m sure Libya would rather have had the $10 billion to spend on healthcare, education, and housing.
And so this is what I mean taking the hardest way to do it as opposed to the easier and better way to do it, so that’s what, and also taking to bigger steps. Universal healthcare is a really big idea in this country, and you are never going to get it anytime soon before the constituency is fighting over with each other.
What the goal should be is more people insured next year than this year. More people insured the year after the next year than next year. In other words taking steps that are smaller that you get more people to get behind to get a sense of accomplishment and then moving on from there that’s the way to solve problems from abortion to healthcare to you know building the schools.
Jason: Let me take a brief pause. We will be back in just a minute.
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Jason: Just backing up the moment Gaddafi and Libya, you have a chapter in your book about cultural differences. And we live in such a globalized society nowadays. Most people living areas where you’ve got mixed cultures, and mixed ethnicities, and so forth, and there are significant cultural differences. How can we negotiate better with different cultures?
Stuart: Right that’s another really good point. And in getting more I have got various studies that will surprise people. One says that in companies with workgroups where there are significant perceptual differences, three times as many marketable ideas are created in consensus groups because differences in most creativity even more canalizing for each 10% diversity added to your city, net income for everyone there increases by 15% which is a vast amount of money, no magic and Silicon Valley is located outside of San Francisco that’s the most diversity in United States so.
If you would say with some frustration we are different to each other I would say, we are going to make money [unintelligible 0:51:37] more because from our different come up better synthesis, and people that fight each other over differences are reducing profits. And so that’s a really key ideality if you would understand. You want people to be different, and you want to learn stuff from them because their different perceptions add value.
Jason: Oh yeah sure but what I’m talking about is most people listening have heard about how you should negotiate differently for example with Japanese. I mean they have a very, very different style. And you know —
Stuart: I disagree.
Jason: Okay, go ahead.
Stuart: I disagree total. First of all, there is a 130 million Japanese. You know they will negotiate all kinds of different ways. Some like New Yorkers and some like the stereotype of Japanese. I need to know the pictures of the person said at the moment of a negotiation.
And you can’t tell by [unintelligible 0:52:28], and so the first thing you want be is I want to be me, and I wanted to tell people that I’m me because if I try to be somebody that I’m not going to credible. So I’m to say you no, if I insult you in the next couple of days I apologize in advance could you please advice me, that’s real.
People understand that, and they become more collaborate. You act like do you want to act. I will act like I want to act and we will talk about out our differences. That’s much better than trying to do a little dance.
Jason: All I’m saying is that —
Stuart: That just [unintelligible 0:52:57] very well.
Jason: Is it like that culture specifically is one that really, really values? I mean all of your material value this from what you have told me that values respect, but especially in that culture, I mean that is so highly valued.
Stuart: Well, it’s possible for me to respect people so myself I would like to respect not only you, but everybody I talk to. Here is who I am, and so you will always know who I am. And if you don’t think you are being respected let me know. I will do the best I can. That’s much more real than trying to put on that.
Jason: That’s a great statement, no question. You know there is an old saying and I’m just wondering what you think of this. When you are entering into a negotiation and say it’s over price or fee pay whatever it is. It’s over money. And so when you are entering into a negotiation there are two schools of thoughts on this.
The old school would say the first person to mention a number loses, and it seems like a more contemporary school if I’m reading this correctly says mention the number first, and then everything builds around negotiating within that context or closer to your number. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Stuart: Yes. I don’t agree with either of them. I agree with mentioning. I believe the both parties should mention the number last after that what’s in the deal. Money issue is not the only thing in the deal. You want to find out well, what’s thing worth. How we decide was what its worth.
It’s really the other terms that you are whether you are moving in or out of the house, can you give me some time telling you how to get around the neighborhood, or you know what other things should I know, so that all kinds which would leave the curtains, and it’s all kinds of things that I wanted to discuss before I get to a number.
And it is true that that if you mention the number first, and there is a bargaining, and you are so quiet, you will get hurt, and if you mention the number first in the bargaining ranges narrow you can’t anchor the other party. But there is so much more in most deals that you shouldn’t get hoodwinked by thinking it’s just a number that matters.
It’s not. People buy things from others they trust. People have all kinds of other tricks. For example, if I buy a car from a dealership I will pay one price if they just give me a car. I will pay another price if they gave me a free rental during all the time I bring in for servicing.
And they will give me another price if I refer somebody to that so there are lots of different terms and agreements that people can put in those agreements if they find out about that if they talk to the other side, so it’s not as simple as anchoring or getting heard by meeting the first agreement, the first number to count someone else in the deal.
Jason: Talk to us if you would a little bit about travel. Do you mean getting upgrades and things like that?
Stuart: I tend to make connections with people. I tend to — they have a lot of discretion in travel, and I want to see who the person is that I’m dealing with. I want to understand what your day is like. I don’t want to demand things. I want to make it easier for them.
And so many people who handle travel situations are bead upon you get a competitive answer by being nice to them. I have had students that have gotten the first scene on the late train that they were trying to consolidate with the flight that was canceled because they were nice to the person where we have got an upgraded corpus. I had a couple of students of mine who went to a hotel in Barbados and had allowed me. First one, a man that went unthreatened, you know there is a — you have a loud man, I can’t sleep; you know your hotel shouldn’t be doing this. I want a refund.
And they just probably get lost. The second person, a woman went down, and said you know it must be a real try to listen to this kind of music every night. Would you like me to call these artists for you or is there something we can workout.
And thank you for the suite on the other side of the hotel, and that’s two people same sex, one got treated much more better than the other if they made themselves a person and didn’t be [unintelligible 0:57:00], didn’t complain etcetera, so attitude is it means a lot in terms of what you get. And most people forget that when they get upset, and then they just makes things worse.
Jason: Sure they do, yeah. Very true, you know a lot of people listening may be involved already in some sort of heavy negotiation that’s been progressing or a conflict. And it sounds a lot like you are really not just an expert at negotiation, but it conflict resolution.
And I guess there is a slightly different flavor there. What can someone do if that the tone of an interaction has already been set? Any tips on changing and reframing the negotiation or the –?
Stuart: Absolutely. One of the things I say in getting more is you can’t change yesterday but you just say what’s going on. You are very transparent about this so I would say you know we haven’t got along so well in this negotiations, but if you want to try to get both of us, and if they say this is all your fault, I would say I accept any fault that’s mine.
But the question is that did you want to try to do better or not. I mean we can fight over yesterday or whatever we can try to do better ourselves. Always I have often said to companies would you like to give our retained earnings to the sales department or legal department?
Jason: Yeah, that’s a great question.
Stuart: So what we should we doing with our future here. The future is what we can control. [Unintelligible 0:58:25] go to the court, have a war], but what do we do now is the question. Yesterday is the same cost so that’s how I encourage people to think what are we doing?
And if people want a concession if they want to move on my answer is if we have a relationship, I will give you something for yesterday. If we don’t I won’t, so first we have to see whether we have a future together, and then I will talk to you about yesterday, but to talking about yesterday before we have the deal is a waste of time, so most people put the car before the horse. First you find out whether you are going to get a along, and then you see what you can do with each other.
Jason: Very good point, so that’s kind of like one of the subheads in your book. What can we do now, what can we do for the medium term, what can we do for the long term.
Stuart: That’s right. That’s sort of how I want to look at it. What can we do right now to add value a which means you don’t want to — and you also need to understand to do this other people’s perceptions because what you think you said is not necessarily what they think they heard.
A mother is already with the [unintelligible 0:59:28], or going at it like, the daughter thinks I have no freedom. The mother thinks that daughter is going to get killed. Now or her, unless the two of them discuss their respective perceptions that evening in that relationship is going nowhere.
So you really have to question every time you are hanging out with somebody, are they hearing what I think I said, and often they are not. They go up there upset, and people won’t hear very well when they get upset for the ordinary family arguments, and for arguments in Congress and everything in between.
Jason: So how do you make them hear you bad or then?
Stuart: You give them an emotional payment. You said you say them first I wanted to hear what you are thinking and feeling let me know, let me have it. And he will ask you some question to [unintelligible 1:00:11] and then you incrementally say well I would like to talk to you about some of this stuff.
A couple of things you have said may have a misimpression of me. I want to correct the easy stuff first. Here is what I’m really thinking. Then I would like to talk to you about the things where we are different from one another, and how we can form an agreement on that. But that makes the parties much more easily the interesting in the agreement than more of the emotional complaining and shouting that usually goes on in conflict.
Jason: Very, very good material Stuart, this is excellent. Can you tell us maybe as a way to sort of encapsulate this before we end, and then we can conclude with some of those things? Talk to us if you would about some of the different philosophies of negotiating, and where you stand on those.
Jason: I mean certainly there have been a zillion teachers on the topic, a zillion books written on the topic, and a zillion seminars on the topic [laughter].
Stuart: Great. That the first thing is, is many people thinking you need to use power and leverage over other people to make them do what you want to do. The alternatives are worst than necessary. They may do it because of resentment and retaliation may be not today but later. And they will come back at you before and that’s going to cost you in the future.
The next thing is that when you force people to do things they don’t give you the best stuff. They don’t give you the best ideas. They don’t give you the best cooperation whether you were at work, only to 5:00, and whether you are a kids you know you might be not give your parents all the things they want to retaliate in some way. And so it’s not very good, and that means best alternative to negotiate agreement that, it really you know is an implicit threat, and I don’t want to do this.
I don’t want to say actually go somewhere else. I mean I will have that in my mind, but if I say to you, you are going to get angry. And so you are not going to do what you want you to do. Rather than I want to find out what are your needs, what are your goals, how can I meet them? So that’s the first thing people do wrong in negotiations.
The next thing they do wrong is they try to make it logical win-win, but most people as I mentioned are upset whether it’s as I said [unintelligible 1:02:19], or kids kicking it straightened on the floor. And if people are upset they don’t want to know about win-win.
They don’t want to see your spirits. They want to know how do you make me feel better, how do you evaluate what I’m saying so what I want to do instead of doing rationality, be rational, be calm as I want to find out what’s eating you whatever it is. And people often say to me but they are crazy, and I say to them back, did you want crazy people that are unpersuadable or crazy people who are persuadable.
And so if you value them it just creates people who are persuadable. And that’s better for me in the world I live in, and so that’s the second thing is giving people emotional payment, and not assuming the word as logical. The third thing is to be incremental, is to try things a little bit that you won’t clean your room, would you clean a quarter of your room, you won’t, can’t give me a $1000 raise, can you give me a $100 raise, and I try step-by-step to bring people from what where they are now it’s where I want them to go.
The next thing is I got to know what are the pictures in their heads are. I have to ask them, I have to guess because I don’t know the pictures in their heads. I have nowhere to start, and I can’t possibly value them. And finally this is transparent, you know somebody says are you giving me an emotional payment, I will say you are darn straight, what’s wrong with that.
This is a transparent process not to manipulate process. People respond much better to others who value them, and say what’s going on. I have got a little model that sits in the back of the business card on my website, in my book. And it gives you like 20 questions to ask in negotiations.
And I tend to share this with you while negotiating with because it gets everybody on the same page in the process where focusing on their goals, and what are the needs on the games we know each other.
Jason: Fantastic points, very good. Tell people where they can get the book, and any other information that you have [unintelligible 1:04:13]?
Stuart: Well, the book is called Getting More, and you know they can get it at Amazon. They can get it in book stores. They can get it at CEO READ, or Barnes & Noble. And in addition to that out website is www.gettingmore.com. And they can also look on that, and that will also give you the link to the place where you can buy the book.
The book is sold very well here and abroad. It’s again a new idea, but it’s number one in Taiwan. It’s the number one business book in Britain, and as you mentioned it’s been the bestseller this year, but so what I’m really trying to do is to get people to think about a different way of dealing within, and so more situations wind up like the guy with the [unintelligible 1:04:51].
Jason: Yeah, that could have escalated into something really ugly, and it was solved very well. Four and half stars on Amazon, so keep up the good work Stuart, and thank you for joining us today. These are some fantastic tips, and I’m sure they are helpful to everybody listening.
Stuart: Thank you very much.
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