Jason Hartman and returning guest, Dan Amerman discuss federal policies and interest rates, which hurts the savers and fixed income folks. The artificially low interest rates are not working and create higher prices through inflation. Listen at: www.JasonHartman.com. They also discuss inflation rates, in which the federal numbers are glossed over and do not match true inflation as experienced by the American citizens through food, fuel, and utilities. Manufacturers hide inflation by making products smaller. Jason and Dan then talk about rental housing and how to arbitrage the inflation. Dan explains how to turn the fed policies around to our advantage. It starts with understanding cash flow investing and setting your safety margin. When looking at cash flows, rather than being all about the price, it’s more about the interest rate when it comes to a mortgage. In the process of creating non-free-market interest rates for banks and for the federal government, the federal government has accidentally made available subsidized mortgage rates that are available if you can get the lending. It goes directly to your bottom line as the investor, resulting in much higher cash flows than you would see in a free market.

Dan and Jason illustrate how the sharp decline in housing costs and the interest rate levels causes the floor to drop out and provides an unprecedented opportunity to obtain mortgages and have inflation pay them off. While rates have been dropping, rents have been going up, thus making real estate investing even more profitable and sensible.
Daniel R. Amerman is a Chartered Financial Analyst with MBA and BSBA degrees in finance. He is a financial author and speaker with over 25 years of professional experience. Years of studying the costs of paying for over $100 trillion of US government retirement promises, as well as the costs of cashing out an expected $44 trillion of Boomer pensions and retirement accounts, have convinced him that too many promises and too much paper wealth chasing too few real resources will likely lead to substantial inflation in the years ahead, with potentially devastating implications for many savers and investors, a problem that will also apply to many other nations.
Mr. Amerman spent much of the 1980s as an investment banker helping Savings & Loans and others try to survive the effects of the last major bout of inflation in the United States. There is a basic economics principle that much of the public is unaware of – inflation doesn’t directly destroy the real wealth of goods and services, but rather, redistributes the rights to that real wealth (a principle which unfortunately will likely destroy much of the investment wealth the Boomers plan on enjoying in retirement). The author worked with the effects of billions of dollars of such wealth redistributions, and saw how there was not only a loser for each dollar of wealth redistributed – but a winner.

Female Voice:Welcome to Creating Wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before and a new slant on investing fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness then you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multi-millionaire who not only talks the talk but walks the walk.

He’s been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 States and 17 Cities. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom. You really can do it. And now, here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman: Hey, welcome to Creating Wealth Show. This is you host Jason Hartman, on Episode Number 259. Today we’ve got a somewhat frequent guest on the show, Danny Amerman back and I think you are going to find this his most interesting appearance on our show, because we’re going to talk about something that’s near and dear to everybody’s heart and it’ going to be about rental income cash flows and just a whole bunch of ways to profit from what’s going on now days. Boy, but we get into that, I’ve got jut — it is amazing. You’ve probably noticed by the by the way if you’ve been listening to the show for any length of time for the last 258 episodes that lately there’s all this talk of recovery and I’ve been somewhat I guess walking that find line on that, because I think what we’re in is what looks to most of the uninformed people like a recovery and to me I don’t really call it a recovery and here’s why. All the surveys we’ll call it a recovery, all the real investors will love it and in that sense, yes it’s a recovery or us, but a recovery to me means that everybody wins, and I’m not sounding like a collector vista or socialist when I say that, but what it means is that housing affordability, of course, is very high now. I’m going to talk about that in a moment. In fact it’s the highest it’s been in decades and things are looking quite rosy. Prices are going in different markets all over the Country and remember these states that you’re seeing are three to five months behind in almost case.

So, the market is quite a bit better then they’re actually telling you because they don’t have a report on that. Now, we talked about that on prior shows too, but here’s what I need. A long time ago during the financial crisis at its rally ugly low point and I’m going to say to and a half years ago, maybe even three years ago, I was talking about how we are in this first phase of financial crisis. So, the first part of the financial crisis was a depression deflationary phase, but the second part of the phase if you look at it like a W, is an inflationary phase but for many people that inflationary phase in the so called recovery, okay will be really actually quite painful and those are the people who haven’t accumulated commodities, which are not indexed to the dollar. Those are people who haven’t denominated their assets in the things, because remember things matter, symbols of things, those are called currency, by the way, dollars or symbols of things that aren’t really things, those don’t matter a much. They do matter a bit but not nearly as much, they’ve denominated their assets in real things that people need that are not just indexed to one particularly currency, and they’ve denominated their liabilities in dollars or a east in some depreciating fiat currency.

I trademark the term the ultimate investing equation okay. That’s part of my ultimate investing equation where we help you do that. And as we see this inflationary side of a cycle coming, because now we’re in that second part of the W, we will see a lot of people make huge, huge fortunes. That’s you, by the way. So, congratulations, because you are listening to the show. Hopefully you are following our advice, as you’re listening and you’re taking advantage of this. You’re following the ultimate investing equation. You’re buying real things assets below the cost of replacement, below the cost of construction. You’re hopefully attaching a lot of long term investment grade, fixed rate debt to those commodities that everybody needs, those resources and you’re going to profit very, very handsomely.

Now remember, fortunes throughout history, you know they can really be boiled down to about four things, four pillows of extreme wealth, we’ll cal them, and I’ve talked about this on the show and on my host survival show, as well. What are the four pillows? Well, the first one is really my favorite. It’s real estate and resources. Okay, real estate and resources. So, what I mean by that, of course, you get real estate, that’s what the show is largely about, but resources are things that come out of real estate.

Remember when I had a guest on oh about three and a half years ago, and he was running for Congress, and he talked about — and you know, he’s kind of a simple guy really, not a swift politician type, but he talked about all wealth comes from the land. And you know, if you think bout it, that’s mighty true. When you look at mining, you look at precious metals, you look at agriculture, you look at resources like oil and natural gas, all well comes from the land. Well, that’s pretty simplistic, but those real estate and resources, whether they be water resources, oil resources, natural gas resources, mineral rights resources, whether they be rare earth minerals or they be precious metals, all of these things come from the land. So, those are part of the real estate and resources. Okay, that’s one pillar. The next pillar is banking. So, bring in the banking business can be very, very powerful. And in banking, you know there’s a lot of subsets of all these categories. These are just the four major pillars, but in the banking pillar, I would almost through into that insurance and that doesn’t mean having an insurance policy being one of those — I’ll say it, I don’t believe in it, those suckers who use life insurance as an investment because I don’t believe it is an investment. I just think it’s insurance, so if you need life insurance, like I said before, here’s something cheap, economical term life insurance policy and leave it at that. Don’t be investing “in life insurance”. It does not qualify as an investment in my eyes, because those insurance companies, they do not want you to understand the constant devaluation of you dollars. They’re baking on the fact that you don’t get it. That you’re unaware and uninformed. Same with annuities, same lame deal.

I don’t like bonds, I don’t like annuities, I don’t like life insurance okay. But we’ll kind of call that the banking pillar okay. Now, the banking I love is I love being a borrower first of all. That’s my favorite thing. Being a three decade fixed rate, lowest rat in history, borrower, I love that. By the way, if you were a citizen in Greece right now, the Country that has borrowed way too much and all those lazy folks over there, no offence my Grecian friends, I’m just jealous, okay. But all those people that want to retire at 49, they are in too much debt and look at the debt the master debt has gotten them into.

If you’re a borrower in Greece, I you know what you’re going to pay to borrow, about 25 percent annually. Wow, ouch. That is loan shark — those are loan shark interest rates. Loan shark rates, and so the bond vigilantes and the bankers, they explored a lot of these opportunities and they can do really well with it, but right now in the United States you have the opportunity to borrow at such an incredibly low rates. That’s really being in the banking business in my opinion.

Now, most people they don’t deal it that way but I think you’re being a banker when you borrow like that and you attach commodities or resources to those long term fixed rate investment rate debts. So you denominate your liabilities in dollars and depreciating currencies so you have inflation induced debt destruction by other little, say it 10 times fast phrase that I’ve made up, inflation induced debt destruction.

Now, what’s the other pillar? Well media. I think Media is a big, big pillar of wealth and we see this everywhere from celebrity culture, you know which is relatively disgusting in my opinion, when it comes to Paris Hilton who’s just famous for being famous, no other reason. It’s just kind of a funny thing again and you look at these terrible examples of citizenry out there who are struggling with their own things. I hat to almost say that about them but I’m sure that they are definitely struggling. But yet these people overindulged in life and acted like complete heathens most of the time and they’re out there and they’re making fortunes.

You know, you look at like Lindsey Lohan, right and just like what’s next about soap opera? Ridiculous. But the other part of the media business is being Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch and maybe just Jason Hartman. Maybe just being a podcaster. And by the way, one of our clients tab had a consultation with me last week and asked what I mentioned on the show before, my product that is coming out that is almost finished and it is the 10 million podcast system. So, if you’re interested in starting a podcast and making money with it and monetizing it as I have and I’m very grateful for. I’ve really been quite fortunate, but it’s not just luck, it’ also by design. A lot of people have asked me about it so I put together — I’ve been putting together a little product on that. So, more to come on that when it’s finished. I’ll announce it and you’ll have the opportunity to learn more about that.

So media, that’s obviously a place where people have made fortunes. And then the next pillar, the fourth pillar is technology — technology. So, Silicone Valley, certainly Facebook is going to have heir IPO here in a couple of days. You know, we’ve seen these incredible, initial public offerings of technology companies and usually the people that make the most money in any kind of public offering or stock deal are founders of the company, right. They’re the insiders, the people that have the opportunity to get inside first. You know, those things that we don’t have the opportunity to no open to the general public really, only to the elite class and that’s why I love income property, because it is open to all of us. It’s very, very egalitarian and any of us can do it. You just need a little tiny bit of money, not even that much.

Hey look, if you anted to buy a property and start out at St. Louis. You can buy for as low as $5,000 down. Now I bet anybody listening can rustle up $5,000 bucks and maybe friends, families and fools just the same way I started in my real estate investment career, and I have made millions of dollars with my investment since then, okay. And so, you can get together $5,000 bucks and buy a property in St. Louis. We’ve had that deal in other markets from time to time, but certainly the opportunity is there to get into this business. But let’s talk about technology, back to that for a moment.

So technology — now no one asked me this, I just asked myself this question, and what I said to myself recently was I said, how about help care? People certainly made fortunes in health care right. Well, in the health care industry, that’s really several industries in one of courts, isn’t it? It’s resources, it’s technology and I’m putting science under the technology banner. It’s also insurance. I mean health insurance is obviously the thing that runs our whole system her in the U.S. So, those are the four pillars of wealth creation. Well, now let’s look at how many pillars am I in? How many pillars are in you in of these four, right? Well, I’m glad to say that I’m certainly in real estate and resources. You know, I love resources and I love real estate. I love things, commodities, things that have universal need. I’m in banking because I’m a hard money lender. May of you are as well, and if you’re looking for referrals to sources – by the way we’ve — I’ll mention that about the private lending or the hard money lending. We’ve had a really, really tough time with that lately in the sense that we haven’t had deals to fund because the inventory has been so darn scarce. And you know, when your money’s sitting on the sidelines of the bank, you’re getting destroyed through taxes and inflation, right. It’s a terrible deal.

Many people think well, I’ll just keep my money on the side for safety. I’ll just part it for now. Listen, money is never parked in this environment that we have. Every since 1971, it’s virtually impossible to park money. Since we went off the gold standard, parking money does not exist as a safety bat. You have to keep the money working at all times.

So, be a hard money lender if you want to earn 12 and a quarter percent, or maybe even more depending on the length of the loan. You can do that with hard money lending, phenomenal opportunity there. So, email me, if you’re interested Jason at JasonHartman.com and the good news is, on of our local market specialists jut emailed me a few minutes before I recording this saying that they just took down 16 new properties, so they have lots of funding opportunities available. Okay now I know 16 that will be gobbled up by like three days from now, but we are starting to see a little bit of a break in the dam in the inventory. Why is this happening? Well, we’ve had a — we’ve suffered from a terrible inventory shortage the past few months because investors are coming out of the woodwork and buying stuff like crazy, but we have a couple of special connections and one of them is through one of our local market specialists, say Fanny Mae connection where we have got an opportunity to get about 90 properties altogether, but not all these properties will work for our investors. Some of them will be properties that will be resold to traditional home buyers, not good enough for you an investor and then in a couple of other markets we’ve been able to get a couple of good inside track deals, as well.

One of the reasons we’re able to do this and our local market specialists are able to do this is because of our long established record and because of our volume and our credibility in the business. Okay, so use that to your advantage.

So, if you’re interested in taking advantage of that banking pillar, that’s the second pillar banking, be a borrower, a long term fixed rate debt, of course, but also be a lender of short term high interest and who can you loan to? You can loan to our local market specialists who have very high inventory costs, because heck, properties are a high tech item. So, you can finance their deals and you can earn over 12 percent doing it and they’re a very short term loans, so you have very, very little inflation risk. So, I love that.

On one side of the equation, you borrow it, four and a half percent, five percent, maybe even six percent for three decades and of the other side of the equation, you lend out money for four to six months at a time and you get net with fees included, maybe 12 and a half percent, maybe even higher. So, maybe even higher.

So, you know me, Jason at JasonHatman.com if you want to get into the banking business, okay. If you want to take advantage of that pillar. And I use technology in my business in my life, so do you, of course, but gosh I don’t own any proprietary technology. I’m sad to say. I’ve wanted to, I tried to buy property tracker, the software company that we like so much, that we recommend all of our investors use and you can get a special deal on that. We make no money on it, we just like it. One of our clients invested it and then the owner decided he was going to do something else with it and go into the business of doing ads and he didn’t want to sell it to me anymore. You heard him on the show as well, a great guy and so I’m not in the technology business. I would love to be in the technology business because then I would have all four pillars, but I am in the media business and that is my podcast network, my other company, the Hartman Media Company, publishes 15 podcasts. It publishes educational products, newsletters, things like that.

So, I am in books, of course, don’t forget 11 books now, and so I’m in the media business, the publishing business. So, I would like to be in technology some day, but boy for simplicity, accessibility and just general ease of use and conservative stuff, ny very favorite is heck, keep it simple and just buy yourself a couple of properties and manage them and wait. It’s sp easy. It’s the most historically proven wealth creator. And folks, how much evidence do you really need if I haven’t convinced you of the last 258 episodes that income property is the place to be.

Look at some of the recent head lines okay. Top 20 metros, that’s of course the case showed index right, which is misleading because it’s only five percent of the market. You’ve heard me talk about that, with biggest jumps in affordability. It says, the U.S. Housing affordability index compiled by the national association of realtors reach a record high in the first quarter of this year and this is a great index, by the way, you know. I have my qualms with NAR, National Association Realtors, but boy I tell you, I love this index, the housing affordability index because I think it is one of the very, very best indicators of where the market is going to go. And it’s obvious, because if more people can afford to buy what are they going to do? They’re going to push prices up but there’s a big — pardon the putt, there’s a big butt in there and what is the big butt. It’s the net weight. Can they get a loan? Is financing accessible? Yes. It would be an awesome deal but a lot of them can’t get loans. Tens of millions of Americans have destroyed their credit for the next couple of years or several years because they’ve done strategic defaults, they’ve had foreclosures and I tell you, it’s a great opportunity for us as landlords, but get this. The NAR U.S. Housing Affordability Effects is at a record level and here you go.

The index, okay, basically what it does is it measures — can they — the medium families, the medium household income afford the medium price existing single family home in that market based on 20 percent down and an 80 percent mortgage. So, that’s how it works, basically. That’s the basics of the index and how it’s calculated.

Now, an index value with 100 means that the medium family has exactly income to qualify for mortgage. Now, they may have income but not the credit. Remember, they may not have the credit and that’s the real dichotomy that’s going on in this market that represents big opportunity or us as real estate investors. But if it were 100 that means that family could exactly afford that home and that would be great. That’s a good index, a 100 level, right. Well, guess what the index is now? It’s at a record high. Last quarter it hit an all time record high since the index was invented in 1970. How many years ago was 1970? That was 42 years ago, or 4.2 decades this index has never hit this record. It is the best it’s ever been right now., folks, and the number is not 100, which would mean like a parity. That’s the way you could look at that, parity. It’s now 205.9. The first time on record the index has risen above the 200 mark since they began tracking it in 1970. Wow!

Here’s another headline for you. Builder confidence is at its highest level in five years. Washington, D.C., confidence among U.S. home builders rose to the highest level in five years in May, a hopeful sign that the modest improvement in the housing market will pick up. Well folks, it’s not as modest as you think, because remember, they’re tracking numbers that are five — three to five months behind the curve. And our numbers are better because we’re in the investment price segment of that market. So, it’s even better for us as investors than any of these articles say.

And then here’s a couple of more headlines for you. Fanny Mae, more Americans expressing confidence in economy and home values. Next article, buying a home won’t get much cheaper according to AOL real estate.

Next article, home prices rise in half of U.S. cities as markets stabilize, Blumberg got caught. Now, combine that with this that I’ve been talking bout over and over. Here’s another headline for you and it’s a sad one but it represents opportunities for us as investors, as I talked about so many times of prior episodes, recent prior episodes. And what is it, it’s the student loan issue. It days, student loans cripple an entire generation. This is from Newsier. Want to be college students have lot to prepare for. All night study binges, grueling exams and the three jobs they’ll need t pay off their crippling student debt. What’s worse, the financial burden is only growing, the New York Times reports. Today just 38 percent of the nation’s one trillion dollars in student loan debt is being paid off and the default rate has recently doubled. I’ll be paying forever says a 24 year old drop out with $70,000 in student loans. For me to finish it, would mean borrowing more money. It makes puke to think about borrowing more money. Folks, this is sad, it really is.

But the reality of it is, is that these students, the GENYers, the largest demographic cohort in American history, larger than the baby boomers by four million, they need rental housing, because God knows it’s going to be a long time before they can be able to buy a home and that is a sad commentary but it’s the way it is.

So you know what, I’m going to do them a favor and you should too, provide rental housing for them. Expand the choices and the inventory of good quality rental housing, so you can serve those people, because a lot of them are coming right at the rental housing market in their renting and household formation years right now.

Okay. That’s it for my commentary, my little monologue. Well, three more things. If you ant to do the hard money lending, we really need a minimum of about $75,000, okay. Several of you have expressed interest and I’m glad you have. I appreciate that, and it really takes about $75,000 or so to get started because remember, you’re not pooling your money with anybody. You are in complete control. You’re a direct investor, so that’s what it’s going to take to buy a whole property, about $75,000. So, that’s about the minimum for private lending or hard money lending.

The other thing is, make sure you talk with one of our investment counselors. You can reach them through the website at JasonHartman.com, because they can help you with free portfolio makeover, a free portfolio review. I recommend at least one time every single you should have a portfolio review. Take advantage of these free services from us, okay. Portfolio makeover, portfolio review, ask for it by name and also ask them about something that has become extremely important. May of you are buying a lot of property, and by a lot, I mean many of you are buying 15, 20, 30, 40 properties from us right now, and by golly, it’s been a great business for us. So, thank you so much for putting your trust in us.

But one of the important things that really, really comes up when you’re working out your plan of buying properties, and we’ll talk more abut this on future shows, but it is the issue of mortgage sequencing. How you borrow, where you borrow, what type of lenders you’re borrowing from and in what order you close those properties to sequence your mortgages properly and in what areas, if you’re a cash buyer, should you buy cash and what areas should you finance?

So our investment counselors can help you out with all of this stuff. You can reach them through JasonHartman.com, the website, and of course look at some great properties there like this one. We’ve got our St. Louis tour coming up starting this Friday and it’s going to be great. If you’re not there and you want to get in on it last minute, you know, you’re going to pay $50 — $100 extra bucks for your airfare, if you have t fly, but I tell you it’s going to be a great tour and a whole bunch of you are coming, so we’re looking forward to seeing you Friday night, the welcome reception, but check out this property..

You know, this one’s sold but we’re going to see more stuff like this, this weekend, because at JasonHartman/Properties, our vendor is holding — our local market specialist is holding properties exclusively for the participants in the tour. So, if they don’t sell this weekend on the tour, then they will go up on the website sometime next week at JasonHartman/Properties. So here is a four plex, a four unit property, 3.500 square feet, $99,000. That’s only $28.00 a square foot. This is fully rehabbed and rent ready. Gross rents projected at $1,800 per month and let me just go through a couple of key projections for you on the performer.

Positive cash flow of over $10,000 annually. Over $800 a month positive cash flow, and that’s with financing, 25 percent down. You still have massive positive cash flow. Your cap rate on this property is 14.7 percent. Your cash on cash return projected at 32 percent annually, overall return on investment, projected at 46 percent. And let’s compare this to a commercial property that is a Walgreen’s that only a fool would buy, but it might not b a fool, it might be a really smart sophisticated guy with n MBA who went to Worton or Harvard or some great school like that, who is running a fund that you are investing in and hopefully you’re not investing in funds, because here’s the kind of crappy deals they buy.

This is a Walgreen’s and this property has a 25 year triple net ground lease. It’s three million, $241.000 and Walgreen is rated as A by S&P. Boy, you know you can rust their ratings, can’t you? S&P and Moody’s and all these ratings companies have had huge criticism after the financial crisis and it’s an Aspirin Houston Suburb. Guess what the cap rate is? It’s only a rotten, measly, crumby, crappy 5.4 percent, compared to the little property you can buy that’s got a cap rate of 14.7 percent.

So yep, don’t buy those big commercial properties that all those really cool sophisticated people buy, because the return there getting is a heck of a lot lower than the return our investors are getting. So, who’s really more sophisticated? That is my question for you.

All right, without further adieu, let’s get to the interview with Dan. You’re going to love this interview. He talks about some really, really interesting stuff and I read one of his emails and I asked him to come on specifically to talk about this. So, we’ll be back with that in just about 60 seconds. Hope to see you Friday in St. Louis and in St. Robert this weekend.

Female Voice:Now’s your opportunity to get the financial freedom report. The financial freedom report provides financial self defense in uncertain times and it’s your source for innovative, forward thinking investment properties, strategies and advice. Get your newsletter subscription today. You get a digital download and even more. The price, only $197.00. Go to JasohHartman.com to get yours today.

Jason Hartman: My pleasure to welcome back a — I believe it’s a fourth time guest now, Dan Amerman, a favorite who is the creator of a course entitled “Turning Inflation Into Wealth”, and he has a great reading series. And again, you’ve heard him on the show before and it’s great to have him back. Dan, how are you?

Dan Amerman: Good, Jason. I sure thank you for having me back. It’s great to be here again.

Jason Hartman: Well, of course my pleasure. You did a recent article that I found to be very interesting entitled “Arbitraging Fed Plixiwa with Renting Housing Cash Flows”. Tell us about.

Dan Amerman: Really tied together several different things. The — well, I thought we were talking about Fed Policies is something that I think all too many people they’re familiar with these days and that is, you just can’t paid any money [inaudible] have in the bank for money market account.

Jason Hartman: Ain’t that the truth. I tell you, it’s — I mean these rates are so ridiculously low, it is just — I mean it’s just killing people on fixed incomes. Your senior citizens who save, I mean the savors are really getting the short end of the stick, aren’t they?

Dan Amerman: Yeah, it’s really unfortunate and it’s entirely artificial. The federal Reserve, of course, has pretty much total control over interest rates these days and they’re using that to keep interest rates as low as possible and it helps to settle government a great deal.

I did an article last fall where I looked at approximately market rates what the Federal Government deficit might be and it might be another 500 billion dollars a year. If a treasury was not paying such low rates on that approximately 15 trillion it had borrowed, and this is all for really beneficial for the Wall Street firms. It’s very beneficial for banks in general, but the people that it really hurts are the average people, particularly people who have been — they’ve been saving for retirement and one of their financial plans have been showing them for years. It’s been strategies based upon getting a reasonable bit of income, and that’s particularly true if you’re older because you’re supposed to be shifting out from stocks and the bonds or retirement or al these millions of schedules that have been run for people at the same interest rates of four, five, six, seven percent or whatever you pay the year when it was run and now it’s below one percent. It’s just not working.

Jason Hartman: It’s not working at all and then the picture actually gets much worse then we’ve talked about so far because these incredibly artificially low interest rates create what — they create higher prices ultimately through inflation where you’ve to this increase in money supply that has been extraordinary and so not only are they getting just killed on the fact that the money that they’ve worked so hard to save all their lives, doing the right thing, saving money, saving for a rainy day, but then you add to it insult to injury is that the money is further debased because of this monetary policy, right?

Dan Amerman: We’re in this fascinating and unfortunate situation and that — this is unprecedented in our lifetime. We have the Federal Reserve that has absolutely abandoned its long term goal to be a Stewart of the value of the currency. It never gets back of the drop of it. The dollar’s always steadily lost value over time, but that was their attempt to maintain the value of the dollar. We know they are creating literally trillions of dollars and of enough of this to support a Federal Government, they can’t pay some bills and to pas through money on a privileged basis to financial [inaudible] and in many ways this is a most inflationary potential situation that we’ve seen in our lifetime.

One of the potentials is anytime you go to the grocery store, to see what’s going on with inflation, and so if you take like a half book economics prospective, what they would tell you is that interest rates right now, should be in excess of 10 percent. At least five percent or above, just because people should have inflationary expectation.

The central bank, the Federal Reserve is openly monetizing, but instead we’re being cheated out of all the facts. The interest rates simply aren’t there. As long as we do what we’re supposed to do, and build — find the opportunities at the same time.

Jason Hartman: Now, that was interesting what you just said, Dan, because okay so what you’re saying is the text book scenario would be that interest rates would be somewhere close to the inflationary pressure so that people wouldn’t be completely devastated. You know now, we’ve got sort of both transworking in opposition. I mean, the interest rates — I mean, take for example during the Jimmy Carter error, I remember my mother was saying to me that she had a Dean Whittier money market account that was paying like 17, 18 maybe even 19 percent. I can’t remember for sure, but the problem was the value of the money was going down faster potentially, but still you have this — the spread wasn’t that devastating in the old days as it is now, right, because — and I don’t know even what your thoughts are on this but I’ve read a lot of articles and my thinking is kind of a true inflation rate. Of course, it depends on how you live and how you spend. Is somewhere between nine and 10 percent right now, as we speak? I’d love your opinion on that, by the way.

Dan Amerman: Well, the interesting part about inflation is it’s just diluted to there is no true national rate of inflation. It’s different for each one of us depending on our lifestyle, depending on where we live and it’s different depending on what stage in life that we have. So, what that comes to then is that we have this incredibly, complicated calculation that requires a huge number of assumptions in terms of how inflation rates are calculated and what group we’re really looking to and what expense category for the increase of inflationary. And the other fascinating part is when we look at things like the rate of economic growth and so forth, these are always done on an adjusted for inflation, basis.

So, the rosier the inflation statistics look and that’s something I’ve been writing about and teaching workshops for years, the lower the inflation is, the better the economy looks, and the less money has to be paid out people who have cost lower adjustments or social security and things like that. So basically, the lower the inflation rate works, the better off incumbent politicians are. And the politicians have known this for decades. And the way that we calculate inflation has changed a great deal over the last 40 years. It’s been a moving target.

Now, when I look at the rate of inflation, I look at how much I pay for dinner. I look at groceries. I look at health care. I look at different categories like that. I look at my utility bills and I will say that for me, personally when I look at health care, when I look at food and when I look at utility bills, those are all climbing at at least 10 percent a year, currently. Even when the Government tells me there’s no inflation here —

Jason Hartman: Yeah, that’s a —

Dan Amerman: — it’s always been faulted. It’s been faulted every time you walk into a grocery store where you pay your electric bill, or you go to a restaurant.

Jason Hartman: And you — and I want to mention too. Dan, never in my life until about a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago, did I even pay attention to my utility gills. I mean, I just put them on auto pay on my online banking account and just sent them a check for a flat amount that was usually an overpayment. So, I always had credit, and I never had to think about them, but utility bills have been sky rocketed. I mean it’s unbelievable and the same with the grocery store and it’s — and they hide inflation too, the manufacturers of products of course, because the products keep getting smaller so that bag of potato chips, it ay be the same size bag, but there are fewer chips in it. And if you look at the net weight, and the cost per ounce of anything you buy, it’s — it’d skyrocketed, it really has.

Dan Amerman: You could day the dinner that I just took my wife out to. We went to our favorite restaurant. We ordered our favorite special meal we don’t get al that often and it was up 33 percent, year on year.

Jason Hartman: Now, you must really be a romantic date and I got to tell you, I can imagine you’d be the charter financial analyst sitting at dinner with your wife and you’ve got your calculator out, maybe a spreadsheet even, and you’re saying —

Dan Amerman: Using out rights of inflation. You have to lie with me long enough at this point, you know the kids and so forth and so on, that she’s forgiving and understanding when I do rates if inflation at the dinner table.

Jason Hartman: And you say, honey we can get our favorite meal but just understand that’s up 33 percent year over year. We’ve got to find a little humor in this tragedy that’s going on.

Dan Amerman: Indeed, indeed. And we’ve got to find a way to turn it around to our advantage.

Jason Hartman: We do, we do. Well in turning it around to our advantage, there’s a couple of subheads in your fantastic article about Arbitraging Fed Policies with Rental Housing Cash Flows. So, the first subhead is understanding cash flow investing. You’ve to an interesting chart there that looks at operating expenses, mortgage payments, investor cash flow and vacancies. And then you bring this into the larger picture. Tell us about that.

Dan Amerman: Well let me put this in context just a little bit because I like what you said about your mother and Dean Whittier and the money market rates she used to get and so forth. I got out of graduate school in 1983, which was the worst year for new {inaudible] MBAa getting employed then we’ve ever seen in our lifetime. And the problem was that we’re still dealing with the lingering after effects of stagflation. And within a couple of months after getting out of graduate school, I closed my first multi-family deal and I worked as a financial analysts. And I think the interest rate on that was actually that of attention and financing. It was something like 13 1/2 percent.

Jason Hartman: So, that was an apartment building that you —

Dan Amerman: Yes.

Jason Hartman: — were a consultant on? Someone was buying it and you were consulting on the deal, looking at the new [inaudible]?

Dan Amerman: Yes. Typically on larger transactions and they’d be other parties involved between just besides and your local bank. And you know, I worked for many years in the multi-million transactions in trying to come up with optimal financing structures for people so they would pay less money when they do the larger deal.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, good. So what was the interest rate again you just said?

Dan Amerman: It was a tax exempt deal in this case and I think it was something around 13 — 13 1/2 percent, which was great because the taxable rate was more like 15 percent. And in fact, if you go back — I’ve got this up on the screen somewhere, if you look at peak annual average interest rate, it was in 1981 and the average mortgage rate was 16.63 percent and this made a huge impression on me because it is very difficult to make Calvin Cash Flows work when you’re paying a high rate of interest, and that’s part of what I illustrate in the article which is available at my website, that is that, if you have a gross amount of money that’s coming in, you take out for vacancies, obviously you don’t make any money for you to see [inaudible], and you have to [inaudible] transition time where it will be empty.

You withdraw for any expenses and often your biggest payment is going to be the principle and interest on that mortgage payment and I think 3hat many people don’t understand is they look at the headlines and they’re totally focused on price and I think this as something that was really reinforced in real estate bubble at the last decade. People were looking for the quick slip. They were going to come in, they were going to hold the property for maybe a year and they were going to sell it for a lot more money so they weren’t as worried about the payment side at first, bit if you’re looking at real estate really as an investment, there’s nothing more important in establishing both your cash flow and your safety margin than the size of that being nonpayment, assuming you’re borrowing to buy the property.

Jason Hartman: And Dan, hat is so amazing right now just as a little aside here. Is it unbelievably for the first time in my many, many year career, longer than I care to admit, we’re actually seeing where private lending for single family homes actually works now for both parties, and maybe — you know, I said that on one of my recent shows, and maybe that’s because we are in this unprecedented time where you can actually borrow from a private lender, a hard money lender and the deal will make sense as the borrow. That has never happened before that I can ever remember, because mortgages have always really been subsidized by the Government since the depression, that Fanny and Freddy have, and now private lending actually you can buy a deal on a — I mean long term for private lending is five years, on a five year private loan and the deal works. I can’t believe it and it also works for the lender reasonably well, too.

Dan Amerman: Well, the amazing part, and that is something that has been opened up by the Government because the overall payment structure is so low that you can come above the bit for a private lender and it still works for you. You’re still cash fine and the private lender is getting a substantial better interest rate. They’re going to be able to get on a five year paper anywhere else.

Jason Hartman: Oh my gosh, I mean they’re getting an interest rate that is maybe 2,000 times better than the bank is going to pay them. It’s insanity how much better it is, you know.

Dan Amerman: Part of the reason I wrote the article after having worked all those years and done all those many thousands of rental units in the financing and so forth, is that I think a misunderstanding that people have if you take a very short term prospective is they think that you pay is the most important thing because that determines the profit you sell it at.

Now, if you are a cash flow investor, that is simply not true. I mean obviously, you want the price to go up and really all real estate transaction — you have both to play, eventually there’s the capital banks and in the interim there’s the operating cash flow and so forth. But if you’re looking at what really matters, how much money do I have coming in, how much money do I have going out, what kind of return am I getting on that equity investment on maybe in the first place, and how much safety margins do I have? Well, the fact of the matter is that interest rate is more important than price.

Jason Hartman: Sure, it is. It’s all about the effective cost and that interest rate, that mortgage is a huge asset. You know, most people consider the asset and the mortgage the liability, but really the mortgage can be a huge asset.

Dan Amerman: It can, it can and it’s really worth the money its made. Now and the question is, how much leverage you do, you know the old strategy with go as high as you could that I think there are [inaudible] coming in there significantly lower leverage rates and how different people different prospective on that. I think you used to have a different prospective on it then the way you have now, but the key factor there is that that subtle reserve had accidentally — because they’re not really looking out for small investors in any way, but in the process of creating non free market interest rates for banks and for Federal Government and so forth, we essentially have subsidized mortgage rates that are available if you can get the lending. You know, if you can get the Fanny, the Freddie loans, whatever the case is and that goes directly to your bottom line as the investor. We’re seeing much fatter cash flows then we would be able to see if it were a free market.

Jason Hartman: Well, the amazing thing is, when we look at our performers that are on my website at JasonHartman.com in the property section, the debt coverage ratios on financed properties now, Dan, they’re like 2.3 — 2.4, even three times. I mean, it is so unlikely that anyone would ever be faced with a default scenario when you have debt coverage ratios so good it makes the investments so conservative, but part of the reason, of course, is because the property is so much cheaper. The properties are far below the cost of construction if you’re buying them in the right market, but of course that mortgage is so much less expensive too.

Dan Amerman: And this is something I illustrate, and again his is a DanielAmerman.com, just look under the real estate tab, is you have two factors coming together simultaneously. One of them is that we do have a sharp decline in prices, and of course as you know very well, everything is local. It’s much sharper decline in some markets than others. On a national basis, we’re well off but you know, we’re still not as far down as it were in the ’80s and ’90s, but what is absolutely on an inflation adjusted basis. What is absolutely unprecedented is the interest rate levels, but when you put those two together, we get that third graph that I’ve got. I’ve got a graph that tracks home prices in inflation adjustment terms on a national basis. I’ve got a graph that tracks interest rates and you put the two together and it’s like before it drops out. We’ve never seen mortgage payments so low, which means we’ve never seen such ample opportunities to enter into a property with a substantial positive cash flow with substantial safety margins and then we’re locked in and we’ve still got that irresponsible Federal Government and the Federal Reserve out there destroying the value of our money, which when they do that, they destroy the value of our mortgage.

Jason Hartman: That’s a great thing and that becomes a huge asset because inflation pays it off for you. So, which graph are you talking about now? These graphs are really great. I love your graphs. Okay, so you’ve got one entitled “Average Price of U.S. Single Family Home, Inflation Adjusted from 1992 to 2011, okay and that’s the Freddie Mac House Index, and then another graph that’s quite interesting is, “Inflation Adjusted Mortgage Payments from 1992 to 2012, and that’s 2011 —

Dan Amerman: If you look under my Section of a 20 year history of financing costs, there are there are three graphs in a row and when you put these three together, you’re really going to see what’s going on here. One is 30 year fixed mortgage rates 1992 to 2012, and you know, there’s that little vig up and down but it’s almost straight down. It was all at record low interest rates right now. Then I have the average price of U.S. single family homes, which is inflation adjusted and if I opt to use the Freddie Mac, the house price index as opposed to the better known case shower, this becomes — a case shower is heavily steered toward major metropolitan highest.

Jason Hartman: I couldn’t agree more. It’s only 20 markets. It only represents five percent of U.S. It’s just crazy that people review the case shower index as —

Dan Amerman: It’s almost worthless from us to the Country.

Jason Hartman: I couldn’t agree with you more. I only —

Dan Amerman: And Freddie Mac is not —

Jason Hartman: — I only like six of the markets in the case shower index. Six out of 20, okay.

Dan Amerman: Okay.

Jason Hartman: Go ahead. Yeah.

Dan Amerman: But the Freddie Mac index is truly national and it also uses comparable properties, which is you know, the claim to fame of the case shower. So, you’re tracking a comparable size house over time that has opposed to the other distortion which is houses getting bigger and so forth. But anyway, I think it’s a better index. So, it would put those two together — you know, we get the third graph which has the orange line and that’s inflation adjusted mortgage payments. And what you can see there is that basically between 1992 and the start of the bubble, we were bouncing around up and down at a little less than $900.00 a month, a 70 percent LTV if you’re financing an average home after the prevailing mortgage rate.

And then you se this big spike up to a little over $1,100 for the real estate — that’s the very peak of the real estate bubble.

Jason Hartman: Right. And so that’s just to tell the listeners that’s 2005, 2006, 2007 is that’s where you’ve got that big spike and now you’ve fallen way below that line. I mean —

Dan Amerman: The floor has dropped out. We have never in our lifetime seen this relationship and we’re seeing it solely because the Federal Reserve fell aggressively, intervening in the market place to keep interest rates below market levels and most specifically to keep mortgage interest rates below market levels. In the process of doing so, its opened this tremendous back door for us.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, they really have. So, her you went from $900.00 in 1992 up to — over $1,100,00 in that looks like about 2007 — 2006, 2007 and then now you’re down it like $570.00 when adjusted for inflation. So, do you see how much cheaper that mortgage has become when you’re adjusted?

Now, I’ve got to ask you that —

Dan Amerman: Even though that floor has been dropping out, rents haven’t been.

Jason Hartman: I know. It’s beautiful.

Dan Amerman: Rents are up. They can see they’re down.

Jason Hartman: Yeah. An incredible time for real estate investors, it really is.

Dan Amerman: And that was my motivation in writing the [inaudible}. I said, look I started doing this in 1983. I’ve never seen this before. And I’ve seen all these headlines in the paper and they’re worried about prices this, prices that. And if what they’re missing in the meantime, but it’s always good, I’m a strong believer as you are I know in buying low and selling high, but this is an amazing environment. We have so many positive factors working at the same time. Even if some of the people are saying, oh real estate, I’d never touch it.

Jason Hartman: Let me take a brief pause. We’ll be back in just a minute.

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Jason Hartman: Well, what I wanted to ask you about this index is, which inflation index did you use or are these the “official” numbers? Or using the real estate inflation index?

Dan Amerman: Oh no. I can’t take a combined approach here. I’ve been writing articles for years about how can’t trust the inflation rate. It’s actually higher than that, but in this particular case, I don’t want to have to take someone who’s never seen one of my articles before looking for financial education. And first explain to them, what’s wrong with inflation statistics and then get to the bottom line results, because then everything is dependent on their accepting what I’m saying about inflation rates.

I use the straight up CPIU from the U.S. Government.

Jason Hartman: Consumer Price Index U – U —

Dan Amerman: Yeah, the urban component of the Consumer Price Index, and these numbers look way better if we use a more realistic inflation rate.

Jason Hartman: Um hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose if you put in a realistic inflation rate rather than the official numbers, this mortgage payment — inflation adjusted, would actually be below $300.00, I bet., something like that. You know, I mean I’m just sort of guessing here very anecdotal, but wow, that’s the great thing is it’s even better than what you show in your chart.

One of the things that the premise that you started off with today is how we have this artificially low interest rate environment that is — it’s not exactly a ponzi scheme, but it’s a bit of one, I guess. In the way —

Dan Amerman: It’s a product — it’s a redistribution of wealth.

Jason Hartman: Well yeah, I wasn’t referring to that though. That’s sort of the result of the scheme. What I was referring to was is the way the Federal Reserve and the Treasury operate, and so — I mean, they can’t keep rates artificially low forever. I mean, first of all maybe explain to the listeners a little bit how they’re doing that? I mean, how — you know, they have market pressures too. The U.S. — the dollar is not the only currency. The Federal Reserve is not the only central bank in the world. I mean, we have to trade with the rest of the world and certainly we throw our weight around, but at some point, don’t the Chinese and the Japanese and the rest of the world just say, We’re not going to buy your T Bills anymore. You know, screw you guys.

Dan Amerman: You know, the subjects you just went over with, we can sit down for two or three days.

Jason Hartman: I believe it.

Dan Amerman: We can have a conversation, Jason.

Jason Hartman: Yes.

Dan Amerman: And I’m not sure where to start on that, but the — first of all, the reason the U.S. dollar is maintaining its value is because we’re being played for suckers when it comes for employment. Other nations don’t want the reserve currency status, because then their workers become too expensive.

When we talk about China and currency manipulation, they love us having the reserve currency. They love the U.S. dollar being over priced. Governments around the world and their central banks are happy to participate in this illusion where the U.S. is financially the strongest nation in the world, because when we do that, our workers can’t find jobs, we can’t compete fairly, we have this ongoing massive unemployment crises that we have. Their workers are artificially under valued and they gain the employment benefit from doing so. And this is just a massive situation for both U.S. workers and retirees.

In terms of how the — it’s not like I got a — I should say each one of these, and I’m referring to I’ve got extensive resources available on my website.

Jason Hartman: And that’s DanielAamerman.com. And I just want to say that Amerman is A-M-E-R-M-A-N.

Dan Amerman: Yes. And if you go to the tab called Retirement Investing, I have an article called “Bullets in the Back”, where I describe exactly how this current manipulation works and how it is U.S. workers and U.S. retirement investors, who are basically paying the price for this.

Now in terms of currency manipulation that’s being enabled, if you have — if you want to know how the Federal Reserve is controlling all of this, I have what’s called a tab for a money creation primer, that shows you how the Federal Reserve has literally created out of nothingness, you know over a trillion dollars and given it to insider interests and used it for market manipulation and so forth. And it’s basically, what they do is that they will, for instance, buy a mortgage if they want to manipulate mortgage interest rates from a bank, and they will pay them in what are called access asset reserve balances.

Now here’s the key point, the access asset reserve balance didn’t exist until the Federal Reserve said it existed, and this is not like the money was there beforehand. This is not even like the multiplier affect that people talk about how banking used to work in the past. This is unprecedented. The Fed simply — the Fed Board the central bank has the ability to directly create money. When they create a lot ability, its money and they have an unlimited ability to create that and an unlimited ability to control the markets.

Now the other essential thing, absolutely essential, that try to sound a warning about [inaudible] people not enough, when QE2 was announced on [inaudible] is a methodology with the Federal Reserve used to do it. What they did was they created this money and they didn’t use it to directly buy U.S. Treasury. They didn’t use it to directly finance the U.S. debt which would have been technically legal with the laws that have been changed here. They did something much worse. They took this massive sum of money and they said they were going to use it to control prices and yields in the U.S. Treasury Market. So, we have an openly officially admitted with an official goal of the Federal Reserve controlling the interest rate paid on U.S. Treasury Bonds paid by the U.S. Government to make sure there’s not a free market and then the interest rates will tire the rest of the economy are based upon that. That’s probably as far as I can go on that profit for now, but I don’t know if that addresses your question.

Jason Hartman: It does. It’s just amazing. I mean, how this stuff works, it’s just — it’s really hard to get one’s head around it, Dan. You know, the concept of money being lent into existence and — but once you do, it really just opens up a whole new prospective on financial life.

Dan Amerman: And the other thing to keep in mind here is people often treat this as being obscure stuff. This is really dry stuff. And most people have even ever studied [inaudible]. You know, they did it in college 20 years ago, 30 years ago or something like that, and if you’re basing your knowledge of the world around you on either newspaper reporters or an economics class you took in college 30 years ago, you just have no idea. And that is absolutely what the Federal Reserve or the Federal Government counted on in this case.

The Federal Reserve has never acted in this fashion before. They’re doing entirely different things for the benefits of privileged insiders then they were ever doing before. I can’t tell you why whether the newspapers don’t understand it or they don’t chose to report it, whatever the case is it’s not been reported, and it’s changing all of our lives.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, it really is, it really is. Well, given all of this, given what you said, we’re in a situation now Dan, where according to your article, total inflation adjusted reduction of 49 percent over a five year period. I mean, talk about a cash flow opportunity investors, if you’re not — if you’re not buying good properties with good financing now, you k now, you’re just missing the boat. You really are, but given all of this, what do you think about the future of the inflation in interest rates? Do you care to make any predictions as to where they’ll be if I went — I know it’s very hard to predict anything with all this Government manipulation?

Dan Amerman: Well, I’ll close on two different ways of looking at that. One of them is, there is a long and infamous history of Government manipulation rates without advantage. And economists call this financial repression. The last time U.S. Government’s that levels were asked where they are now, it’s roughly 100 percent of GEP, was in 1946 just after World War II, and they knocked off 70 percent of that for about the next 35 years to what’s called financial repression, which is making sure that U.S. savers got cheated relative to the rate of inflation. Now again, this is not something you read about in the newspaper, but it is very much — ad this is professional economics. This is how it really works and I’ve got a tab on my website, Financial Repression, that has three kinds of essential education articles and how that’s worked in the past and how it’s working right now.

But the other issue is, as hard as Governments try to control [inaudible], and they really did, and in theory it got the power to keep this going indefinitely. They really do, but the problem is they’re human, they mess up. Given enough time, over time when a Government tries something this aggressive and this ambitious, they’re inevitably going to mess up at some point, and when they do, we’re talking about probably an explosive increase in officially admitted inflation as well as interest rates, but because what we’re really talking about is, we have this program in place right now the media’s not covering, and most of the Country is not aware of. You know, they just look at the lousy deals they’re getting and they’re fixed on how that’s — I don’t know, the natural economy or where this is coming from. It’s entirely manipulated, though we have this tremendous pressure building and that’s the example I use sometimes. If — when you have Government manipulation going against what’s pre-market desire should be to people’s own desires talk, it’s like two big tectonic plates moving against each other.

There’s going to be a time going to be — and you recognize the former — some South California, that’s going to lead to an earthquake at some point. We can’t tell the exact day. I know there’s people out there that say, oh this will happen in 2013 —

Jason Hartman: Right, right.

Dan Amerman: — it may happen in January, ’14. Well, I wish I was that smart.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, nobody knows.

Dan Amerman: I’m not. But I do know tremendous pressure is being brought and the greater the pressure and the longer this builds and the longer we have the diversions between Government manipulation what the market’s going to do and what people want to do, the greater that earthquake is going to be when it happens.

Jason Hartman: Um hmm. That’s a very, very good analogy, because the tectonic plates are moving against each other. These are unnatural forces that are occurring and free markets ultimately have to rule the day and when the jig is up, we are going to see higher interest rates. We are going to see very high inflation in my opinion, and it’s very, very important that investors position themselves now for hat is coming, because you can’t position yourself later. You have to do it in advance of the wave. If you’re a surfer, you’ve got to start paddling before — you know, as that wave is starting to swell. You can’t jump into it when it’s the nice beautiful tube.

Dan Amerman: Let’s go back to 1981 and 1983, everyone knew about inflation then, but it was kind of hard to profit from because interest rates were 16 percent. You want to be prepared, you want to be riding that wave when interest rates are 4 percent, 5 percent.

Jason Hartman: Yeah. Yeah, or 3.87 percent, which is the rate on a 30 year — and of course this isn’t for investors, but it’s close for investors. It’s not bad. You know, I just financed an apartment building that I have and I couldn’t believe it. Ten years, 4 1/2 percent borrowed 3.4 million dollars. Wow!

Dan Amerman: Wow!

Jason Hartman: Wow, what a — I —

Dan Amerman: That’s incredible.

Jason Hartman: — I just — when I signed those loan documents, I just felt like that was a gift from God. It’s amazing and you know what, the 4 1/2 percent, I don’t pay it anyway. I outsource the debt to tenants. They pay the debts. So you know, it’s a great thing.

Well, the website is DanielAmerman.com and everybody subscribed to the — you still do the readings series, right?

Dan Amerman: Yes, I still have the free minute course, Turning Inflation Into
Wealth.

Jason Hartman: A fantastic course and that’s where the person subscribing for free gets an email, what, once a week, Dan?

Dan Amerman: It’s a couple of times a week over the space for about a month, month and a half, and you essentially — it’s a bunch of 10 to 15 minute reading, so it takes a little bit of your time, a couple of times a week, and by the time you’re done, you’ve finished a short book that has, I think has really changed some people’s lives.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, it sure has.

Dan Amerman: [Inaudible].

Jason Hartman: It sure has, and I’ve been to your three day course and it was excellent and just highly recommends that people take advantage of your work, check it out, learn about what you do, because it’s pretty fascinating. You know, there’s a bunch of other stuff here you talk about the hidden taxes in gold investing and one of the other things I’d love to ask you about some day in the future is the gold housing price ratio and how it’s at a historical low. Gold being used as a measuring stuck, just some great stuff there, Dan. So, thank you for all you do.

Dan Amerman: Well, thank you so much, Jason. I sure appreciate the opportunity to talk with you.

Female Voice:This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company, all rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.HartmanMedia.com, or email Media@HartmanMedia.com. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor, Inc., exclusively.

The Jason Hartman Team

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