Announcer: Please note disclaimers at end of show. Welcome to Creating Wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before and a new slant on investing, fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible.

Jason is a genuine self-made multimillionaire, who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. He’s been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom. You really can do it. And now, here’s your host, Jason Hartman, with the Complete Solution for Real Estate Investors™.

Jason Hartman: Welcome to the Creating Wealth Show No. 147. This is your host, Jason Hartman. Thanks for joining me today. It is a very rainy, stormy day here in Southern California, and I don’t know about you, but I love weather. It’s so cool. Don’t you love it when it’s storming outside? It’s as if God is putting on a show for us. I just love a big storm. And today, it was an amazing storm. I walked out of here to go to lunch and I mean it was like gale force winds and rain just pouring out of the sky. Anyway, I hope your weather is exciting or pleasant wherever you are and however you like it.

Today we are going to focus on the business aspect, rather than the real estate aspect of things, and we’re going to talk about personal branding or celebrity branding. And in that vein, I would encourage you to go buy a copy of my book. It’s an old book, published about ten years ago. It’s called Become the Brand of Choice and it’s all about how to turn your name into a marketing empire. I know a lot about this. I’ve done it myself and if you would like coaching on that subject, I can coach you on that.

But we are going to interview Nick Nanton today, who is all about celebrity branding, and I think you’ll enjoy the interview. Really, if you think about it, people don’t have relationships with logos. They don’t have relationships with buildings. They don’t have relationships with names of things, of companies. They have relationships with people and that’s why I think branding, taken into the realm of personal branding, is particularly effective.

And if you think about it, who is the first person who really did this in a big way on the big, sort of, stodgy, stuffy corporate level? Well, I think it was Lee Iacocca when he appeared in those Chrysler commercials many years ago. There have been many others on smaller scales that have used personal branding and now, of course, Donald Trump and Martha Stewart and Emeril LaGasse, all these celebrities. Now it’s a big thing obviously. Everybody has kind of discovered personal branding.

And if you have a business you’d like to promote, a cause you’d like to promote, anything, it’s great to have a personal brand. So we’ll talk a little bit about how you can do that today with the interview.

On the subject of real estate and income property investing, I tell you I think 2010 is really going to be a great year. We are excited. There are a lot of great things going on in the business here. We’ve changed our customer relationship management system and I interviewed the CEO of our new company on the show, so that interview will be forthcoming soon. And we’ve got our new website and just all kinds of resources we’re bringing to bear. New shows and new products. So if you haven’t checked all that out at, be sure you do that.

We have group coaching. We have individual coaching. We have lots of products, the Creating Wealth Encyclopedia, properties. Boy, there are some great properties now and you can earn returns on these properties, annualized returns, and of course, these are projected. Nothing is for sure. But our projections are pretty darn conservative. I think you’ll agree. And you’re looking at returns at least into the teens, 15 percent or more. Many into the 20 percent range and many that are even higher than that, 30 – 40 percent annually with pretty conservative projections.

So there are really only two roads left if you ask me. Certainly, the stock market isn’t going to get us where we want to be. Certainly, investing in bonds won’t get us where we want to go. Certainly, investing in anybody else’s deal isn’t going to get us where we want to go. Having faith in the government is definitely not going to get us where we want to go. I think we all know we have to be self-reliant. In fact, there’s an article in the new issue of the Financial Freedom Report, which, by the way, I have to mention we’ve been getting more subscriptions lately, so thank you for your subscription to the Financial Freedom Report. We have that now set up on our new delivery system so you’ll get it even faster and that’s $197.00 per year. You can get your subscription at

And one of the articles there on the front page is, “You Are Your Only Hope.” So really, I am my only hope. You are your only hope. And we have to be self-reliant in today’s world. We know that the system is not going to take care of us. The system has let tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people down and I think the letdown so far is small in comparison to the letdown that is forthcoming in the future years. So that’s what having a small business is all about. That’s what being a micro-preneur or a lifestyle entrepreneur is all about. That’s what personal branding is all about. That’s what investing in good, solid, sensible income properties is all about.

It’s just all good stuff and it’s all about getting you and your family to where you want to be, protecting yourself from the future. And the future for most people, frankly, looks fairly ugly if you ask me. But for those of us in the know, those of us listening to the show, we can create a great future and a great 2010.

Here’s the interview on Celebrity Branding and make sure you check out the properties at our website. Talk to our investment counselors. Oh, by the way, our next Creating Wealth Bootcamp is on February 20th. You can register for that at, and that’s February 20th. Of course, we’ve got the Masters Weekend March 6 and 7, and that will be a great one. And also, I do have to mention we are moving later this week and we just found out on Friday that we may have a slight interruption in our phone service.

By the way, I would definitely not recommend the company PAETEC as a phone provider. I think they are incredibly lame. Have you ever heard me bash a company online? This one I’m not too happy with, so we may have a slight interruption in our phone service, but you can always contact us through our website and that may be for just a few days. I just wanted to mention that if you try to call us.

Anyway, that’s that. Here’s the interview with Nick Nanton on Celebrity Branding. Let’s listen in.

Interview with Nick Nanton

Jason Hartman: It’s my pleasure to welcome Nick Nanton to the show. He is the author of Celebrity Branding You. Nick, it’s great to have you on.

Nick Nanton: Great to be on the show. Thanks for having me.

Jason Hartman: Tell me a little bit about what it is you do.

Nick Nanton: No problem, Jason. I am known as a celebrity lawyer mostly for my work that I’ve done in entertainment. Just to kind of give you a bit of background, I was born on the island of Barbados and I moved to the U.S. as a child. Started playing guitar at 6, started selling already at 16, put out my first record at 18 and got a Nashville Country Song Writing deal at the age of 22. And there are few things stranger when you think about it than a kid from the islands writing country music.

Jason Hartman: You’re right about that and who needs American Idol.

Nick Nanton: There you go! And then as I was kind of looking through my career choices, I was talking to my dad and kind of looking at the family tree and seeing where our roots were, and we actually came from Wales as Welsh pirates in the 1600s to the island of Barbados. So I was trying to figure out that since being a pirate was out of vogue, my dad suggested I be a lawyer because I could still pillage. So that’s where I am today.

Jason Hartman: Well, being a pirate is back in style in Somalia, I guess.

Nick Nanton: Yeah, people keep reminding me of that, so maybe there’s hope. So now I’ve worked with celebrities from all different facets of entertainment. I’m an award-winning songwriter and song producer, record producer by trade, and worked with a bunch of different celebrities. And as I was working with people, like Bill Cosby, President Bush, Don Shula, Bobby Knight, Christopher Reeve, I saw the way the people surrounding them did what they did in order to create, not just buzz, but to capture profit based on the buzz, and that’s what I was most interested in.

And if you think about it, no one will really tell you those secrets. That’s kind of the golden secret of Hollywood really and I figured it out. So as I say, I cracked the celebrity code and now I teach business owners, entrepreneurs, professional speakers, authors, professional executives, CEOs how to become celebrities in their business niche to make more money, to lock out there competition, and to generate greater profit.

Jason Hartman: So talk to us about celebrity and branding and then maybe contrast it with selling and marketing real quickly if you would.

Nick Nanton: When you’re trying to sell anything, everybody knows that the first rule of sales is you have to generate some buzz. You have to let people know that you’re out there. And then you have to create a relationship and then you have to ask for the sale. Any sales training 101 is, ah, kid, you gotta ask for the sale, after they smoke too many cigarettes.

But where everybody misses and 99 percent of businesses in America miss is creating the relationship, Step 2. They can all let you know they’re there and they ask for the business. If you go to a networking meeting, I’m sure you’ve met somebody, as I like to call, the Nancy Network, where they introduce themselves to you, throw their card in your hand, and ask you for your business. That’s not what it’s all about. I don’t know about you, but certainly, in these economic times, you really want to be sure where your money is going.  You want to be confident how you’re spending it, who you’re spending it with, and ultimately, you really want to spend money with people you like.

Research has shown over and over again, even with the two most expensive purchases in your life for most people, your house and your car, people, when they come to narrowing down the choices, over 90 percent of people narrow down their choice based on who sold them the items. So people buy people. That’s the whole concept. That’s all you need to understand here.

And so if you can become the person that everybody wants to deal with, become their friend, and as I like to call it, ultimately move up to the status of a friend in the business, everyone wants to do business with you. So we leverage technology and systems in order to create a one-to-one personal relationship with clients so that you are the celebrity in the business because your target market sees you everywhere because you’re targeting them. And you become the celebrity. They get to know you, like you, and trust you, and ultimately want to do business with you.

We take celebrity status and turn that into a marketing tool so that the sale is much easier. It’s a relational sale even though you may have never met the person.

Jason Hartman: Right. Nick, as you well know, I published a book on this subject that is not as good as your book, by the way, back about nine years ago, called Become the Brand of Choice. And I agree with you that this is a great way to develop business. I used to say it’s like developing friendships on a mass scale and I certainly used this technique in my career over the years, no question about it, and it’s worked very well. But I’m just going to play devil’s advocate with you for a moment if I may.

I think there are a lot of people listening to this who are thinking, “I own a dry cleaner. I see copiers.” They do something that they may not think is celebrity worthy or very special. They may view their business or their line of work as being a commodity. And we know the worst thing that can happen to any business is to have it viewed as a commodity.

Nick Nanton: Right. Once you’re viewing it that way yourself, I’d say you have a lot to learn to begin with.

Jason Hartman: No question about it. You’re absolutely right. But tell them how to view that in a new way and maybe if you can give any examples of people with whom you’ve worked where you’ve turned that around for them, where they thought they had a commodity business. They thought it was nothing special, and how you made it special.

Nick Nanton: One of the businesses I would say is kind of, gee, viewed the most as a commodity is real estate financing and real estate, and we work with a bunch of people in real estate to differentiate themselves because, ideally, different people are going to connect with me than are going to connect with you, Jason. And different people are going to connect with a woman than they are going to connect with a man. So ideally, I don’t know about you, but the worst thing ever for most people, besides public speaking, is walking into a social setting where they don’t know anyone, where everyone else is crowded around talking in circles and you’re standing there and you don’t know anybody.

And so it’s like what do I do? Do I break into a circle to try to talk to somebody? Do I wait for somebody to come to me? And so, if you think about the way we interact socially, it’s exactly the same thing when you go to do business with somebody. I don’t know about you, but I don’t love walking into a car dealership and I mean at least you get greeted quickly, but I don’t know who these people are. You’re always worried about getting ripped off.

So the point here is that you have to create an environment where people want to come to you. Yes, particularly if it’s a commodity, then the only thing you have to separate yourself with everybody else is who you are and the fact that everyone says, “I’m different because I give great service.” Well, I’m sure you do and most likely your service isn’t all that great, No. 1. But ultimately, you have to give more than that because everyone is trying everything right now. You really have to step up.

And we actually have a guy, who we know pretty well, who has a funeral business. It operates very differently. It actually has monthly built-in continuity in his business where actually he offers free counseling.

Jason Hartman: People keep dying? Just kidding.

Nick Nanton: He actually offers grief counseling and guaranteed recovery for 18 months after the funeral.

Jason Hartman: Nick, that’s a really interesting point because talk about a strange business, right? What do you make him? The celebrity undertaker?

Nick Nanton: Whatever you want to call it, but yeah. Ultimately, people just want to look – when somebody dies, that is a tough time. You want to be surrounded by friends and family anyway. The last thing you want is some strange guy dealing with the remains of your family. So he develops a relationship through written pieces and marketing pieces to his target market. And so you want to go see Scott, the undertaker. It’s kind of like a welcome visit rather than this really absurd, awkward scenario, which is most times – I mean I don’t know any undertakers. I wouldn’t want to go see them. I don’t just stop in to get to know them for when I’m going to need them.

Jason Hartman: Yeah. So any other examples of sort of – like, give us an example in the real estate finance world. You said you work with a lot of those people.

Nick Nanton: Actually, we have one guy in particular who’s on the A500 list that we have really built his personality as the go-to guy for small businesses. He only does one type of loan, SBA-504 ones. Very specialized business loan from the SBA, the Small Business Administration, for people who want to own the real estate that their business is in. That’s it.

But ultimately, there are a million people out there marketing SBA loans, but he niched and we helped him build into the celebrity and the guy everybody wants to work with because he’s now known as the best in the business and everybody wants to work with him.

Actually, we deal with multiple realtors. We deal with a lot of health and fitness professionals, who do either online or offline health and fitness programs. Beauty specialists. We have a hedge fund manager. We have multiple dentists, lawyers. I mean really it can work. Portrait photographer. It can work for anybody.

Jason Hartman: So what’s the next step in that? We believe it can work for anybody. What do they do? What do they actually do? What are the steps they take, that you take them through in your book and at your boot camps to make them become a celebrity?

Nick Nanton: Well, the first thing you have to do is you have to stop hiding behind your business name. I’m not saying you necessarily have to name the business after you, but you have to step out in front. And what do you have to do to do that? You have to have a great image of yourself. It doesn’t have to be a photo, by the way. We use cartoons with some of our clients. But a great photo is usually the starting spot, the starting point, and then building a great website.

We have a firm. We do a lot of, we call them celebrity sites. We have a firm called, where we actually build personality driven websites and celebrity branded websites. And so the first thing that happens is when you’re going to look for a solution to something, you’re going to look for something online and ultimately, if you see a place that you think might work, you’re going to contact us and you either call or you email, and it’s kind of a “to whom it may concern, I need some help.”

Well, not our website. You go to our websites and you see the people that you’ll be working with. People call and ask for us by name. Our clients are calling asking for them by name. They send them emails and ask them questions directly. And it’s interesting. When you’re presented in a certain light that’s professional and it looks like you’re a celebrity, people are shocked when they actually reach you personally. And so you’ve already raised the plane now to where instead of an unwelcome pest, you become a welcome guest. They’re actually seeking you out because they want to work with you.

Jason Hartman: Good point. So what about a unique selling proposition?

Nick Nanton: You have to have one of those and that’s how you remove yourself from being a commodity. The easiest thing to start with is work with me personally. Now, the key is you have to tell them why that matters. Like for me, when I’m doing entertainment work, I’m an award-winning songwriter and record producer. I’ve had hit songs on the radio. I’ve worked with Grammy winners. I’m a Grammy voter. I now let them in to why I’m the guy.

But it starts with “I’m the guy.” So then you just have to build your credentials and credibility. And the best way to do that is building third-party credibility through testimonials and then third-party credentials by getting involved with associations, trade associations. Like I’m a Grammy voter. I’m the immediate past chairman of the Orange County Bar Association’s Entertainment Law Committee. I’m on the executive counsel of the Florida Bar’s Entertainment, Arts, and Sports Law Section. And the whole deal there is that the secret is that people want to see that you are the person that they need to deal with and they really do want some pretty heavy credentials.

The good news is that credentials are easy to get. I mean there are trade associations, committees, other things that people in your business are involved in that your clientele and prospects would be impressed by. But you have to start out by going to the meetings and stuff like that. You have to find a way to get into the organization because once you get into the organization and you join, you’ll find pretty quickly that they’re always looking for a few good people. And so it’s pretty easy to become the chairman of the XYZ committee, and from there, they’ll want you to move up to whatever. I became the chairman of the Orange County Bar committee because I showed up and ate pizza, and they were like that guy looks dumb enough. That guy is the next chairman. It can happen as easily as that.

But those credentials, when people are learning about you, particularly from afar, they’re necessary. So the real secret is to find 3 – 5 trade associations in your business and industry and find out what it takes to rank inside those associations. And then ranking and then publicizing that fact through press releases that are distributed online as well as in your bio.

Jason Hartman: How are they distributed online? So you stick them on your website and what online distribution methods do you recommend?

Nick Nanton: There are multiple ways to do it. The traditional ones that people might know, like PR Web and They’re paid press release services that distribute press releases. I personally like PRLog. That’s It’s free and I find that it actually indexes better on Google, which is the key anyway when you’re doing online stuff. So I like It’s free and you can blast away press releases as much as you want.

Jason Hartman: And what the goal is there is to get attention, but also to develop links back to your website, which increases your Google popularity.

Nick Nanton: Yeah, precisely. And the other thing is press releases are – this is a big Fortune 500 secret that no one tells you, but every big company that puts out press, they write it themselves or they have their PR agents or PR firm write it. But it’s third-party credibility that you get to write yourself. There’s nothing else like it.

Jason Hartman: Absolutely. You talk about paying attention to one’s image and making it equivalent to message and to market match. What do you mean by that?

Nick Nanton: Well, look; we’ll go back to my undertaker friend. If I’m selling funeral plots, I’m probably not going to do really well in Seventeen Magazine. My message is death and dying. I’m talking to people who think they’re invincible. Not going to work. So I have to find a message that’s congruent with the market. My message is I help business people become celebrities, so my market is business people, entrepreneurs, CEOs, particularly, as we call them, solopreneurs and solo-practitioners, people who the bulk of bringing in business is on their back.

And to them, they get the message that I have to do something. I don’t have the millions of dollars to compete with the huge firms and the big companies, so I’m going to have to spend my money wisely. Show me how I can spend less money and still compete. And that celebrity branding does that for them. So that’s how my message matches my market and there are millions of other examples, but there’s one there for you.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, good idea. So let’s talk a little bit about getting people to notice you online and some of the secrets for getting traffic to a website that you talk about in the book. Talk about “Five Traffic Strategies.” Can you break those down for us?

Nick Nanton: Sure can. Let’s see where to start. Let me get my list out here so I can make sure I’m matching up.

Jason Hartman: How about Keywords and Organic Traffic?

Nick Nanton: Okay, so the key here – we don’t have time to go into a huge Google lesson right now, but the fact of the matter is that keywords are what drive Google. Being relevant to a topic. Google analyzes your website, sees what you’re talking about, and it says this site is relevant for this. If you don’t know that and you have a website that’s trying to sell real estate, and for the most part, you’re talking about – anything – your dog, then your site’s not going to be ranked very relevant for real estate. It’s going to be ranked relevant for your dog.

So the key here is you have to find out what keyword people are searching for that you provide the answer to. When I first started my entertainment law practice, I was entertainment attorney and so I was smart enough to put out press releases because I had been taught that. And so I put out entertainment attorney press releases and I wasn’t getting traffic at all. So I’m like, well, maybe I’m an entertainment lawyer. A little better. But I didn’t want to the business. I don’t do a lot of movie and TV stuff. I do some of it, but I do music work.

So then I went to music lawyer and my site lit up. The terms that my audience is looking for I thought it was entertainment attorney when no one was really looking for that, not to mention it was much more contentious. There are a lot of people going after those terms. When I did the research, music lawyer was the term that people were looking for. And so you have to do some research and find out what people are actually looking for, and I will tell you that most of the time, it’s not what you think it is. It’s usually a slight variation because we, when we’re inside our own industries, we have this terms of art that we think everyone else knows and they don’t.

So you have to seed your site with keywords and that’s what Google uses to rank you and get you in the organic side of Google. If you look on Google, I’m sure you’ve noticed, Jason, but whoever doesn’t, you have the organic listings usually down the left-hand side and the sponsors, which are basically paid ads, which sometimes there are a couple at the top and also some down the right-hand side. So if you want organic traffic, you have to have the right keywords and you also have to get links back to your website, which that comes from, like we said, the press releases. At the bottom of each one, it says who you are and how they can find you and you link back to your website there, and that’s another way to drive, to give votes to your website. Every link back to your website Google counts as a vote and it will drive you further and further up.

So keywords and organic traffic are one of the first places to start. It’s cheaper than paying by the click you think, but usually you have to do enough work to get organic traffic that it takes a while to build up and you also have to keep – in any field, certainly real estate finance or any keywords like that, I mean forget about it. There are a lot of people spending a lot of money on it. So you have to be very careful and selective and niche down some to try to find a portion of the market you can bust into.

Jason Hartman: Look for the long-tailed, specific keywords is what you’re saying. Good advice. So what about blog syndication?

Nick Nanton: Just like press releases, you syndicate them out and you put a link back to your website. So if you blog and specifically, if you use the keywords you want people to find that blog for, it’s another great strategy. If you just go to Google and search blog syndication, you’ll find multiple paid and non-paid sites that will syndicate your blog across thousands of websites online, and yet again, link back to you content. So if your blog gets picked up on a site that has a great relevancy online and links back to you, that yet again, counts for even more and people might find your content a way to reach you on these other people’s websites as well. So it’s a great traffic strategy.

Jason Hartman: Now the blog is really something that WordPress, of course, is the popular software in the blog world, and a blog can be an audio blog like a podcast, as is my show, or it can be a text oriented blog where someone is writing for it. Is that correct?

Nick Nanton: Or a vlog, as in a video blog.

Jason Hartman: Video, yeah. Good point. Excellent.

Nick Nanton: The key about blogs – and a lot of people get shut down. A lot of people, when they hear the term, they don’t know what it means. All it really is a shortened version for weblog. It’s like an online diary. Certainly there are people using them that way and spilling their guts to it – and for most people that listen to the show, I would imagine they’re business listeners – the key to blogging in business is being relevant, using keywords that matter to your audience, No. 1. No. 2, just using it to show activity and to keep in touch with your audience because every time I write a blog, I email it out to my audience as well just to continue the relationship.

But really, you want to give them some personal knowledge or relate it to something personal. I find the best ones are I just was going out to Hollywood, so I kind of made a play on the American Idol, let’s go to Hollywood thing, and I wrote about what I was doing. And so that’s what I kind of call the “Hi, how you doing?” stuff. That’s like here’s who I am, here’s what I’m doing, or my son just had his fourth birthday. You talked about things that let them in a little bit to whom you are and then you say, “And it reminded me of you. And the reason why is because I learned these three lessons.” So you have to give them some sort of actionable content to take out of your story. If not, it just becomes storytelling. There are some authors who have been able to do very well with storytelling over time, but few and far between. And in the business world, people want actionable content they can take away today. But if you can make it interesting with personal interest stories, then that’s the secret formula there.

Jason Hartman: That’s a very good point. Nick, you give several websites, which look really interesting in terms of article marketing and then PR and press release strategies. And I know you mentioned PRLog before. Tell us about the others.

Nick Nanton: For article marketing, there are multiple. Article marketing is similar to blog syndication. The articles, I still like to do them the same way with some personal interest in them and everything else. Usually, I consider an article a little longer than a blog. It’s really just a stylistic thing. But there are other ways to get out articles than there are blogs. If you search article marketing, there’s, there’s There are hundreds of them and you literally put in your article, put in a little “about” line about who you are and about how to get back to you. Put a link to your website and push go, and they do the rest.

And so article marking, blog syndication, and press release syndication are three strategies that are huge. And if you think about it, you can write an article and a blog that are pretty similar if you want and syndicate those through two different angles, and then you can write a press release on the fact that you wrote the blog and then modify the press release about the fact you wrote an article, and you can get four pieces of really easy media out of one thing.

Jason Hartman: Oh, that’s a great point. So take that same content and then repurpose it a little bit and use it in other ways.

Nick Nanton: Yep, and then write a press release on the fact that you’ve just put up a new blog and that you just put up a new article.

Jason Hartman: Very interesting. One of the things that I know Google penalizes people for is duplicate content. When you’re using these article syndication sites and blog syndication sites, should we have a concern that you’re going to have duplicate content?

Nick Nanton: Duplicate content matters – well, first of all, these article marketing and blog syndication sources are using RSS feed, so it’s actually a feed into the website. So it’s not duplicating your content. It’s just feeding it in, so it doesn’t matter there. And also, even if you were to cut and paste the content, it only really affects you, up to this point because Google does change, if the design is identical. So it’s for people who are taking one website and putting it on ten different domains and posting the same stuff. If the code all looks identical and the content all looks identical, you get penalized because Google knows you’re really just putting up the same thing over and over again.

Jason Hartman: Oh, very interesting. That’s a really good tip. Well, after each of these action steps, what about monitoring and using Google analytics and things like that?

Nick Nanton: The key to any marketing is testing and monitoring. If you’re not doing that, then you have no idea what’s working and you’re most likely doing what we were all guilty of a bit in the boom there, which is just rolling with it because you’re making money.

But ultimately, you need to test and you need to analyze what’s working and what’s not. Google offers a free tool, called Google Analytics. It will literally tell you more than you ever needed to know about your website as far as how many minutes people spent on each page, where they bail out and leave, or they’re converting. They give you all the tools and all you have to do is tell your webmaster you want it, or if you’re doing your own web stuff, it’s just one line of code that you stick in your webpage and it’s a beautiful thing. So I would say any marketing without measurement is just a waste of money.

Jason Hartman: We talked a lot about the online side of the business, which, of course, for any business, the internet is such a great thing because you can reach so many people. It’s so inexpensive. What about the offline world, though? I sort of think there’s almost, Nick, a resurgence of snail mail in a way because the spam filters and people are so inundated by email that they’re just clicking delete, and we seem to spend our lives looking at a computer screen nowadays so much. What goes on offline?

Nick Nanton: Absolutely. Well, there is a resurgence. Well, there isn’t a resurgence that I have seen, except for the fact that the people who I know who are using it are being much more successful than those who aren’t. Here’s the psychology behind this. I spent a long time thinking about why do snail mail things work. And by the way, I’m totally a product of the internet. I grew up on computers. I was on Prodigy and even dialing into BBS with my older brother when I was a kid. I grew up on a computer, and so when my partner Jack, who is about 30 years my senior, said we need to do a newsletter, I said we are. We have one online. He goes, no, no, a real one that we mail to people’s mailboxes. I all but said come on, old man; who needs that anymore?

And he just kind of laughed at me and said just trust me. Just try it. I’m like okay. I’m like, man, this is a big expense and it’s so much easier just to email it. Well, our business, since we started doing our paper newsletter, our business is up at least 200 percent. Here’s the psychology because once I figured it out, I was trying to figure out why. The fact of the matter is in your email box, how much personal correspondence do you get, would you say? I mean I get a couple hundred things a day that require my response, so I assume you’re pretty similar.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, oh, definitely. Easily 200 – 400 a day.

Nick Nanton: So total 300 – 400 a day. At least half of them require a response. The rest is people putting you on lists or spam or whatever else. But the bulk of the communication you’re looking for in an email is personal communication. And then everything else just gets pillaged and trashed because you don’t even have time to keep up with the people who need you. So they get trashed.

Now contrast that to your mailbox and you go home, open up the mail, and it’s almost always bills and junk mail. Well, a newsletter is actually the closest thing to personal correspondence 99 percent of people will ever get in their mailbox. So instead of the value being below personal correspondence like it is in email, the value is much higher than the other content they’re getting in their mailbox. So it’s actually one of the most valuable things they get in their mailbox and it’s perceived completely differently. It’s actually a welcome treat.

Jason Hartman: Good point. Any particular thoughts on PR and public relations in terms of the offline world, local news media, etc?

Nick Nanton: You can use press releases as well, obviously, there. The key online is that they’re keyword driven. Offline, the key is you have to have a great headline. You have to find the news in what you’re doing. If I’m a realtor and I just sold $10 million worth of real estate last week, well, put that out as a press release and no one really cares. But if I’m a realtor and I say I have proof that the economy is turning around, why, because I sold $10 million worth of real estate last week, and I haven’t sold $10 million worth of real estate in ten years. That’s an angle.

If you’re going to do offline PR, you have to look for the conversation that’s already going on in the public’s mind because the news doesn’t want to break a new thing. They just want proof of what’s going on now. So you have to join the current conversation in people’s minds and you have to then gear your stuff towards that. Just look at what the news is talking about and look at what you want to promote and find a way to tie the two together. It’s always possible.

And the other key is if you really want to get coverage, you have to develop relationships just like any other sales game, but now you have to do it with reporters. And the key there really is to reach out to them and ask them if they don’t mind taking your press releases. My real secret is take them to lunch. They’re real people just like everybody else. They can see through if you’re trying to use them. But if you want to actually create a relationship with them, become a trusted resource for them, it’s not a difficult thing to do.

Jason Hartman: Great idea. What about getting on the air in terms of radio shows? What we want to do and what’s so great about your philosophy, Nick, is that it’s really sort of inexpensive. It’s stuff that everybody can do and it’s without doing a big national media campaign that’s super expensive. I mean getting on radio shows, getting speaking engagements rather than doing your own seminars. How do people do that stuff?

Nick Nanton: Well, you have to find places that have an audience that’s conducive to what you’re doing. Not every audience is the same, but rather than starting from scratch, ideally you want to provide content that’s valued. You want to be able to educate people because that’s what they will ultimately – everybody is sick of getting pitched to death, so educate them. They’ll come to you. They don’t ever want to do it themselves. And you can tell them every secret you’ve got. At the time we wrote that book, we spilled every secret we had for the most part and ultimately people love reading and saying, okay, now will you do it for me? And we say sure.

But you have to educate people. It’s time to give instead of just take, take, take. So you give and you give secrets and advice, and so if you can come up with a message that’s tailored to what you want to get out of it, but also can serve to educate someone else’s market, on a radio show, on a TV show, in a seminar setting, it’s so much easier than trying to start something from scratch or either go buy lists or create your own lists. It’s so much easier to use someone else’s audience.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, no question about it. But the question, the hard part is getting in with that audience, right, because just like a reporter that’s doing printed news, radio show hosts and stations and so forth and TV stations the same thing, aren’t they being inundated with pitches of people that want to get on the show and get exposure?

Nick Nanton: Ideally, the key yet again is to create a relationship with them. The journalists who are on my radar, they now get my newsletter and actually it’s converted into a full-color magazine this month. And literally, you have to create a relationship with them. Yeah, if you’re just taking swings at them from outside the park all the time, then they’re not going to pay attention to you. But you have to find a way to get in front of them.

Journalists often go to seminars and tradeshows for journalists and other things, and you have to try to get to know these people and find out – the reason why they’re so hard to reach is because they get inundated with crap all the time. If you can find out what they really need, it’s easy to cut through the clutter. But you have to do your homework and find out what they really need.

Jason Hartman: Good point. Any thoughts on how to do your homework, how to know what they want, what they need? Joining the existing conversation I think is a great point, which you made a few minutes ago.

Nick Nanton: Yes. I’m sorry. What was the other part of the question?

Jason Hartman: Well, any thoughts on how to do your homework, how to find out what they need. Listen to their show; become familiar with them obviously.

Nick Nanton: If they’re a columnist, read their column. If they’re a radio host, listen to the radio show. It’s not rocket science. It’s just being willing to take a look around. The other thing is that just by doing a good job of promoting yourself online, you can get an awful lot. No business is complete without the offline promotion as well, but you can get a lot of leverage and you can start the ball rolling much easier online than you can offline.

Jason Hartman: Well, Nick, this is a fascinating topic and I think it’s very powerful. Obviously, I’m a fan of it myself. Tell us a little bit about your boot camp or your live programs. I’m not sure you call it boot camp, but I know you have a live program.

Nick Nanton: What happened is we have a bunch of clients whom we were working with in consulting roles and other things that said, man, Nick, we know your strategies really work and they work well because we’ve seen what you’ve done for yourself. Can’t you just do it for me? And I didn’t have a solution for that at the time, so my partner Jack and I sat down and kind of brainstormed how we could provide something. We’re not a standard PR firm. They’re great at what they do, but we didn’t want to get in the business of “give me $5,000.00 – $10,000.00 a month and I’ll do my best.”  It just wasn’t what we were looking for.

So we wanted to find ways that would create concrete results for our clients, so we came up with a program, called “The Ultimate Celebrity Branding Experience.” It’s a 12-month credibility building experience. It involves three experiences where you go in a group of 20 by application only. We select 20 people to do them. And you go to Orlando, Florida, you go to Hollywood, California, and you go to New York City, and after the course of those three experiences in the 12 months, you would have been featured on NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Newsweek, and you’ll be a best-selling author.

We actually do everything for you. You just have to come see us three times. We create the media and then we go out and put our skills to work and get things happening.

Jason Hartman: That is phenomenal. Everybody listening is going to want to do that. How do you make them a best-selling author?

Nick Nanton: We write a book together. Either they can write the book, or as part of the program, we can have a published author write their chapter for them. We do a compilation book. And then from there, we actually have worked on multiple books. My partner has had more than 13 books out and has had multiple best-sellers, and we have a strategy for getting books on the best-seller list, so we actually get them on the best-seller list.

Jason Hartman: That’s fantastic. Which best-seller list when you say that? Are you talking New York Times? There’s a bunch of them, right?

Nick Nanton: There are hundreds of thousands. We usually go for Amazon’s because in the online world, that carries the most weight. Or Barnes and Noble because that’s another good one online. Those are the two we usually go after.

Jason Hartman: Right. Okay, so really people can achieve that best-seller category. It doesn’t mean you have to be the next Chicken Soup for the Soul. It opens that door for a lot of people. That’s great. How much does that experience cost, if you care to say it on the air here? I’m dying of curiosity myself.

Nick Nanton: The program is $1997.00 a month for 12 months, so it’s just under $24,000.00. There’s nothing like it out there and if you’ve ever priced standard PR services, you’ll see it’s quite a deal.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, well, I have and I’ve hired PR firms, and I have to say as much as I like the idea of PR and I think it’s great and I’ve been successful getting some decent PR for myself, I have yet to be real happy with a PR firm I’ve hired because it’s just a total guess whether it’s going to work and they all want to take –

Nick Nanton: Yeah, but it’s not their fault either. Part of the problem with traditional PR is the fact that you have to join the conversation that’s going on and it’s really hard to break in any other way, and quite frankly, if there’s a war going on or something happens overnight, you’re just not going to get on, even if you’ve been booked. We’ve had multiple clients get bumped from Good Morning, America and other things like that. And our clients get booked on those shows just from the websites we do for them and things like that because we don’t hide who the expert is. And every news show, all they really want is an expert to come. They don’t want a company. They want an expert.

So it doesn’t matter who you are or what you have to talk about. There’s always something that can trump you and push you off. And I don’t know about you, but when I’m spending my hard earned time and dollars on things, I really want to get the most bang for the buck, and we think we can provide that.

Jason Hartman: That’s what everybody wants in business. No question about it. Best ROI. So Nick, tell us where people can find out more.

Nick Nanton: They can come to They can learn more about the book, download a free chapter, get a link to buy it. Read all of our blogs, sign up for our newsletter. And also if you want to learn more about the Ultimate Celebrity Branding Experience, they can just go to If they have any questions, they can email me at

Jason Hartman: Thank you, Nick Nanton, author of Celebrity Branding You. Thanks for being on the show.

Nick Nanton: Thanks for having me.

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Duration:  43 minutes